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Post by zenith on May 14, 2016 8:54:15 GMT -8
Another food for thought, how many ryder can Sunrider carry? In MoA, based on the hangar CG, Sunrider can at least carry 10 or so ryder, but in LD, Sunrider is said to be full with 6 ryder and have to force it to carry Havoc. Is this another story inconsistency or my memory playing trick on me?
Btw, dev have you fixed that Kryska affection import issue?
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Post by Samu-kun on May 14, 2016 15:01:10 GMT -8
The Sunrider was retrofitted during LD to carry 8 ryders, down from its original design of 12. It can maintain and repair the 8 ryders better with lower operational costs with the new hanger, but it's kind of moot now because the ship's destroyed. Uhh I don't know myself whether the Kryska bug was fixed, must ask vaendryl.
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Post by vaendryl on May 15, 2016 0:56:58 GMT -8
kryska bug is probably fixed? but only on dev side - not steam side.
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Post by Somasam on May 15, 2016 15:31:17 GMT -8
Glad to hear that. I was also confused when they said 6 Ryders was pushing capacity. The explanation makes sense though. And thanks Vaendryl, your work is appreciated.
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Post by 白龍 on May 17, 2016 22:23:45 GMT -8
Eh? But the art book said 10... (Down from 12)
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Post by Samu-kun on May 17, 2016 22:37:14 GMT -8
Eh I guess 10 then, I'm bad with remembering numbers.
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Post by longtimelurker on May 20, 2016 22:06:26 GMT -8
Oh so there's a bug on Kryska's affection numbers during import? Is it possible to manually fix this by editing the game clear save? On a completely unrelated note, I just noticed I'm almost at a neutral stance in the moralist(22)/prince(20) scale hahaha.
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Post by zophor on Jun 27, 2016 12:59:44 GMT -8
Yo everyone, I just finished a playthrough and had a few points that could use some clarification: 1) What happens with Cosette if you save her but choose to scrap her ryder? Is she shoved into an escape pod too or does she die with the Sunrider? Either way she can't escape to rebuild her fleet I guess. 2) Why does Kayto see the ghost of his little sister in child form when making his suicidal charge? The last glimpse he had of her while she was alive was of an adult not a child according to the MoA flashback no? 3) What happened to Asaga's Sharr personality? Seems she just vanished without a trace after that situation with Chigara was resolved, but that doesn't really make sense considering what happens during the Cosette battle. 4) Icari went to the black market to get us a new store, Ava and Asaga are getting a new ship, Kryska is probably going to get herself imprisoned in a naive attempt to make ammends with the Alliance and Sola is guarding Kayto in the hideout, so what is Claude up to while everyone else is busy make preparations? 5) Is the "Farari bitch" mentioned by Crow's henchman Claude? I don't think so considering she was already around before they warped and he says that she was "caught up" with them but I would like to hear what you guys think about this. Many thanks in advance for answers! 1) No clue, probably dies or escapes unseen. She's a pretty popular little character (see what I did there ). 2)You always tend to think of your younger siblings as your little siblings. At least I know I do whenever I'm talking to my sister. I only recently had to play the looming older brother when she brought over some guy from work. 3)Was probably just a manifestation of her jealousy coupled with the fact that Asaga WAS able to sense that Chigara was (unknowingly?) a Prototype. 4)Ava probably dragged her along to keep her as far from Kayto as possible. 5)I'm thinking Sola and this was what she mean't by affecting the timeline. On another note anyone else think that Chigara's probably gone off the deep end based on what we saw (heard) from her and Alice. Begining to wonder if the Chigara romance was one of those anime/manga misdirects.
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Post by thewanderer on Jun 29, 2016 18:43:19 GMT -8
3) From the beginning, it's not clear if Asaga's Sharr personality really exists or was simply an illusion as a way to cope with her new power, the fact she had killed Cosette like she did and was suspecting Chigara like she did. Neither Sola nor Alice had anything remotely similar; the first was a Sharr too (and more "official" than Asaga) and the second had the same awakening power. I could believe some kind of "genetic" personality, but what few we see is basically Asaga's passion for justice and jealousy crystallized, and nothing remotely asking her to restore Ryuvia and make everyone bow to her. Remember too that, since the prototypes revealed themselves, Asaga unconsciously detected that Chigara's brain hyperwaves were identical to the prototype ones. It seems fitting that, not having a rational reason to suspect Chigara, she dumped all of her "bad emotions" into a fabricated personality. As the game progressed and she started actually believing Chigara was the traitor and her jealousy getting even stronger, the need for that kind of thing subsided; the feelings more or less passed to the "main personality" (not that she actually had split personalities, she was probably trying to trick herself to ease her feelings of guilt). 5) I'm pretty sure it's Sola. The Nightmare Ascendant, of which Claude is basically hinted to be the original owner, was said to have fought against the Farari in an Ancient Battle. Besides that, Crow clearly says with all the hate possible, so it's clear the Farari were his opponents on the Civil War, of which Sola was the main commander on battle. It's also pretty much implied he traveled in time to avoid the Shar'lac blast that would have killed him, so Sola seems the more likely choice. The difference in time might be owing to some malfunction; it's even pointed that Crow initially traveled to the past before going to the future, and he actually wanted to return to his present. Besides that, from what Sola and Alpha say, Claude could probably kill Crow pretty easily if she felt like it. When was Claude hinted to have been the original owner of the Ascendent? It seems likely that she's Ryuvian at least, but Alice was saying that as long as Sharr Myra's ghost (whom I interpreted to be the original owner) flowed in her veins she couldn't be defeated because she had the power of a Sharr possessing her. If Claude was the original owner, she would have to have been a Sharr herself, but then how/why would she be traveling through time and who is possessing Alice? She would have to be dead to do that right? That being said, my guess on the whole Asaga split personality issue is that she really was talking to another Sharr, who was looking to prey on her negative emotions in order to take full control over her. IMO - it seems like the Sharrs of Ryuvia are sort of immortal (wasn't something like that implied before as well?) in that their spirits seem to live on after they die, but can only control those who A) have the latent ability to become awakened and B) are filled with negative emotions. Therefore, while Alice has seemingly full-on merged with the ghost of a former Sharr (who even seems to talk through Alice for a moment to Asaga at the end) which allows her to obtain the power to the Ascendent, Asaga seems to be able to repel the (other?) Sharr from controlling her once she gets her emotions in check. Also.... and unrelated to my points above... if Claude's secret ending is to be believed, she's not really a God as much as she's a human who discovered time travel and became like a God because of it. She's had infinite time to play around with the physics of who knows how many universes and learn just about everything there is to know by the time she meets Kayto and pulls off that ridiculous crap that causes the uber-paradox, which she then sends Kayto to figure out how to fix... by apparently meeting Claude before she invented time travel to be his 'partner' in fixing the universe now that they've gone and bungled it up so bad the whole things about to crumble lol. Anyway, sorry for the rambles, just some thoughts on some thoughts...
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Post by Dextix on Jun 29, 2016 22:12:52 GMT -8
So yea, she is basically a god. Semantics dont matter.
That is another reason why i dislike the direction of the story right now. You do not include gods or time traveling in a story if you dont have the experience to write them. Because they are so easy to f up!
If Claude is so strong, whats the point of everything anymore! Anthing you do doesnt matter because Claude can do litterally anything with the time and not give a single fck. It takes away any possible stakes from the story.
Seriosly, fuck what they did with Claude....
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Post by thewanderer on Jun 30, 2016 5:17:42 GMT -8
So yea, she is basically a god. Semantics dont matter. That is another reason why i dislike the direction of the story right now. You do not include gods or time traveling in a story if you dont have the experience to write them. Because they are so easy to f up! If Claude is so strong, whats the point of everything anymore! Anthing you do doesnt matter because Claude can do litterally anything with the time and not give a single fck. It takes away any possible stakes from the story. Seriosly, fuck what they did with Claude.... Well semantics do matter a bit... if she were an all-powerful God then she would have no need to give Kayto access to time travel, she could simply recreate the time-space continuum. She can't do that though, because she even says if she causes too large of a paradox then she will vanish along with everything else. The only god-like power she has is time-travel. That's it. She says Kayto has the help of a deity (I think this is just her ego showing) but she is simply a time-traveler - the first one perhaps, but not necessarily the last, either. Multiple Bianca's showing up and warping a mountain of magma is theoretically possible within the Sunrider universe (clones and warp drives already exist) but just highly improbably given the moment in time that it had occurred. It was only able to happen because she could go back and make the necessary arrangements. She still had to do the work though in order to get everything together, just like Kayto would have to do in order to fix everything (possibly in the next installment?) while she is stuck in the present-time subspace keeping the universe frozen before it collapses for good. So Claude has access to an incredible power that allows her to do ridiculous things, but she can't actively change history without potentially destroying the time-space continuum (a pretty hefty price to pay for any power, and why should an omnipotent God have a price to pay for using their power?) and so, instead, she only tries to influence the actions of others in order to bring about the outcomes or universes that she wants through small, localized paradoxes. That sounds like the understood limitations of time-travel, not the awesome power of a God... In any case, I really don't have a problem with Claude whether she turns out to actually be a God or not. I don't think she is, for the above reasons, but even if she were I don't think she ruins the story. If anything it makes any future installments less potentially choke-hold linear (as apparently was the issue with earlier versions of Lib Day - forced romance and such) in that Kayto is now a 'time lord' (not necessarily a God) as well... With the possibility of other time travelers existing (Claude said she had fallen for other space captains before, perhaps Crow has/had a time-watch as well? and who knows how many other good looking space captains for that matter) there are a lot of interesting directions the writer(s) could take with this development. There is a chance that Claude becomes a failsafe deus-ex type character (if she is a God), which would be unfortunate, but I don't think it's guaranteed for that to be the case. I wasn't expecting The Count of Monte Cristo when I started playing FA/MoA, but the story & gameplay (really enjoy the ship battles) are IMO pretty solid from a kickstarter game I happened across on steam lol.
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Post by Dextix on Jun 30, 2016 6:07:08 GMT -8
Okay, i went overboard with the god bit. But i disagree with you. You say that she has limitations to her time travel, i disagree.
You see, the fact that she can go around time and change things even with small paradoxes, is huge. You know that the flap of a butterflies wings can cause an earthquake? (Or however it goes). Playing with time travel, especially for an inexperienced writter, is a bad thing.
I have read a story long ago, when people were allowed to travel time and there was illegal traveling happening back to the time of the dinosaurs. By the end of the story, even with all precaucions, one of the travelers steps on a plant. He was shot for this. But the world they came back to, was different, the writting, the language, and even people were different. The timeline was altered. Al it took was 1 plant. Just like this, Claude can cause even the tiniest of changes in history, and all of it would change. An experienced writter can use this power once, or twice, or go into philosophical parts of it. An inexperienced one, will use it as a Deus Ex Machina or even worse, make nothing matter, because consequences dont matter.
Now again, now that it is uncovered that she is a time traveler, the uncover was not bad itself. However. If she lost her acces to the powers, but retained other technology and her memories, that would be perfect. A time traveler, stuck in a specific timeline, who you help. Currently, her power still doesnt have limitations, because localized paradoxes are enough, to fck up whole universes.
Also , disagree that this makes story less linear. Because before Lib Day it had potential not to be linear (And wasnt in some cases). Even in Lib Day it had potential, which was simply not used. Most likely that potential will not be used now, since current DLC is non-canon, as such, it matter shit to the current story.
And yes, the writter can take interesting direction with it. But will he? After the first two parts of the series i would agree with you. But after Shit Show that was Lib Day? After seeing the script and the skeleton of it which was so badly implemented and written i would find more plot in 50 shades of gray? Hell no.
And yes, many things in Sunrider are solid and good. But story took a HUGE hit in Lib Day. That is why i am "mad" so you could say. Because i saw the first two games, and brought the third, and felt, felt cheated. Such a fall in quality is never acceptable. And i still to this day refuse to believe it, that the writter who wrote ffirst two games, wrote Lib Day.
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Post by thewanderer on Jun 30, 2016 18:11:34 GMT -8
Okay, i went overboard with the god bit. But i disagree with you. You say that she has limitations to her time travel, i disagree. You see, the fact that she can go around time and change things even with small paradoxes, is huge. You know that the flap of a butterflies wings can cause an earthquake? (Or however it goes). Playing with time travel, especially for an inexperienced writter, is a bad thing. I have read a story long ago, when people were allowed to travel time and there was illegal traveling happening back to the time of the dinosaurs. By the end of the story, even with all precaucions, one of the travelers steps on a plant. He was shot for this. But the world they came back to, was different, the writting, the language, and even people were different. The timeline was altered. Al it took was 1 plant. Just like this, Claude can cause even the tiniest of changes in history, and all of it would change. An experienced writter can use this power once, or twice, or go into philosophical parts of it. An inexperienced one, will use it as a Deus Ex Machina or even worse, make nothing matter, because consequences dont matter. Now again, now that it is uncovered that she is a time traveler, the uncover was not bad itself. However. If she lost her acces to the powers, but retained other technology and her memories, that would be perfect. A time traveler, stuck in a specific timeline, who you help. Currently, her power still doesnt have limitations, because localized paradoxes are enough, to fck up whole universes. Also , disagree that this makes story less linear. Because before Lib Day it had potential not to be linear (And wasnt in some cases). Even in Lib Day it had potential, which was simply not used. Most likely that potential will not be used now, since current DLC is non-canon, as such, it matter shit to the current story. And yes, the writter can take interesting direction with it. But will he? After the first two parts of the series i would agree with you. But after Shit Show that was Lib Day? After seeing the script and the skeleton of it which was so badly implemented and written i would find more plot in 50 shades of gray? Hell no. And yes, many things in Sunrider are solid and good. But story took a HUGE hit in Lib Day. That is why i am "mad" so you could say. Because i saw the first two games, and brought the third, and felt, felt cheated. Such a fall in quality is never acceptable. And i still to this day refuse to believe it, that the writter who wrote ffirst two games, wrote Lib Day. Well I will agree with you that the base story in LD isn't as enjoyable as FA/MoA was for me. I didn't think it was absolute crap, either, but certainly not what I was expecting. Only bought LD because I wanted to support the devs and continue the story, so I can understand why that was a letdown, although it didn't really bother me too much. I also didn't know it had been decided that [Re]turn was absolutely non-canon, so hearing that kinda stinks too, but still the reveal of Claude being a time-traveler could still lead to the some of the things we talked about happening anyway, and I'm still curious to see how it all turns out in the end. Now, back to time-travel. The thing about it is, we only have one actual mode of time-travel that exists in real life, and that is moving forward through the present. Ultimately it may be cyclical in some sense, but as ephemeral beings we experience it as being more linear in our lifetimes. The concept of time-travel in science fiction has been explored a number of times, and the story you read seems to be the most consistent take on the concept: minor changes in the past can have massive implications for the future (butterfly effect/chaos theory). But that's the catch, ***it's a real theory, applicable to our current understood laws of nature, that is being applied in science fiction to a thing that doesn't actually exist (time-travel). This does not mean, however,*** that it is the only way that anyone who writes about time travel can or should conceptualize it. My understanding of time-travel in the Sunrider world seems a bit less drastic than you seem to think of it. The idea that entire universes collapse because of these localized paradoxes does indeed seem like a massive power, but that power is not Claude's. That power is the time-space continuum itself fixing logical impossibilities by merging the former universes with a logically consistent new one, with Claude merely trying to nudge people in different directions then the ones they originally took. Nothing "dies" or is "destroyed" as much as it is "replaced". So long as Claude doesn't drastically alter events of the past in order to determine a new outcome in the future (i.e. - going back in time, cloning herself a hundred times, building a hundred biancas, and then hurling a massive slab of magma through space-time at the ascendent) then the collapse of the universe isn't really a big deal, because it is smaller in scale (not multiple jumps and alterations*) and has fewer paradoxes to reconcile~ I guess what I am trying to say here is that there may be more than one way to think about the implications of time-travel than those that have been presented before. Even if this one makes less sense than other theories, the fact is that being able to travel through time makes absolutely no sense to begin with. There does seem to be an underlying sort of understanding (on the developers part) of how they seem to conceptualize the impact of time travel, and while it differs from the story you read, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Why be locked into an idea that's been done before just because other people think it's the best/only way to write about it? If I were the writer, I would rather not be hamstrung by the expectations of others, if that makes sense. Considering the way that the dev's came back to try and 'fix' LD with [Re]turn (presumably fairly quickly at that) shows me that they are listening and learning, so while LD may have been a letdown, I will still look forward to future releases, because I think they (and their fans**) seem to care enough about the series enough to find a way to make it work.
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Post by Dextix on Jul 1, 2016 8:09:33 GMT -8
The story is not absolute crap, it is how it was written that is crap. And, no, return doesnt revel anything. Because its non canon, and as a noncanon entity it doess not matter at all. That is one of the main problems of making non canon stories, because characters can do anything in them, but if it is non canon, they simply dont matter in the canon. As such, Claude being a simple time traveler, might even be non canon, because its a non canon story.
Currently, there are two popular used theories about time travel. The linear one and the multiverse one. They are the most popular, because currently they are the best in quality, immersion and understanding. IF the writter didnt use any of those, he has to explain his own theory. Beccause if it is not known or clearly defined, that again, marks shitty writting. He doesnt only neeeed to understand it himself, he has to present to the readers and players. And present it well.
And no, dec did not fix shit. Re Turn is a non canon story to apease those people who wanted romantic routes. Thats it. He might as well made a second academy for that. This aint fixing anything as it is not adressing any problems, especialy being a non canon story. And the expanded ending was ripped from the beggining of the upcoming game if im not mistaken, and it was too, badly written.
I look forward to the series, but not because of the story anymore. From Lib Day, story doesnt matter anymore as we can obiviously see the fall in quality.
I will pirate the upcoming game first, and then decide if the game is worth my money. And this makes me sad. Because im doing it because one shitty writter doesnt know how to writte, while other departments are working their asses off to give quality.
Fans care about this game series, and most of the creators. But dont even dare to tell me that the writter gives any shit about the series after writting Lib Day. Becuase it was low quality, rushed and simply nonsensical.
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Post by thewanderer on Jul 1, 2016 17:52:38 GMT -8
The story is not absolute crap, it is how it was written that is crap. And, no, return doesnt revel anything. Because its non canon, and as a noncanon entity it doess not matter at all. That is one of the main problems of making non canon stories, because characters can do anything in them, but if it is non canon, they simply dont matter in the canon. As such, Claude being a simple time traveler, might even be non canon, because its a non canon story. Currently, there are two popular used theories about time travel. The linear one and the multiverse one. They are the most popular, because currently they are the best in quality, immersion and understanding. IF the writter didnt use any of those, he has to explain his own theory. Beccause if it is not known or clearly defined, that again, marks shitty writting. He doesnt only neeeed to understand it himself, he has to present to the readers and players. And present it well. And no, dec did not fix shit. Re Turn is a non canon story to apease those people who wanted romantic routes. Thats it. He might as well made a second academy for that. This aint fixing anything as it is not adressing any problems, especialy being a non canon story. And the expanded ending was ripped from the beggining of the upcoming game if im not mistaken, and it was too, badly written. I look forward to the series, but not because of the story anymore. From Lib Day, story doesnt matter anymore as we can obiviously see the fall in quality. I will pirate the upcoming game first, and then decide if the game is worth my money. And this makes me sad. Because im doing it because one shitty writter doesnt know how to writte, while other departments are working their asses off to give quality. Fans care about this game series, and most of the creators. But dont even dare to tell me that the writter gives any shit about the series after writting Lib Day. Becuase it was low quality, rushed and simply nonsensical. Again, who cares about existing theories of time travel. Writers shouldn't be forced to write about ideas that have already been done before, whether in sci-fi or in any other genre. Furthermore, it is not their OBLIGATION to tell you how everything works right away. That is your EXPECTATION. They very well may have intended to reveal the full workings of their ideas in later chapters, but raising hell and putting pressure on them to conform to a certain standard of previously explored time-travel tropes isn't going to necessarily make anything in the future of Sunrider better. Pirating the game also doesn't help your 'cause' - whatever that is. And I'll dare to say whatever the hell I want lol and who are you to tell me otherwise? I came here because I wanted to discuss nuances of the story, not your personal vendetta against the writer(s) who scorned you so. I'm done here.
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Post by Dextix on Jul 1, 2016 21:41:46 GMT -8
I am not saying it should be forced. But they are the most popular for a reason. They are the best fallbacks and currently, the best theories.
The writters however, can think of their own theory. And they ARE obligated to explain it. Because if they dont, the story wont make sense.
Imagine if the concept of indocrination would not have been explained in mass effect series, do you imagine how many things would not have made sense? The main concepts you base your story on, have to be explained.
And explaining everything in "Later chapters" is not an excuse. Its bad writting in this case. Because that big "reveal" at the end of Lib Day lost its impact, because you simply didnt understand what the hell is happening anymore. Without knowing inner workings of a created universe, you dont know the rules of the universe, which are extremelly important in every fantasy, sci-fi setting.
And again, im not telling to use explored time-travel tropes, but if you are not, explain yours! In this case, it isnt explained!
And no, pirating wont gelp my cause, it will however save my money from possibly defective product. I would like an option to giive money only to certain decelopment teams, so i would gladly give all of it to the art/music and gameplay departments, because those parts of the game were on point.
And i am discussing the nuances (Or lack of them) in the story. Me shitting on the writter is but a small part considering the rest of my text. So ingoring it on that basis is dishonest and cherrypicky to the nth degree.
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Post by zophor on Jul 2, 2016 2:50:20 GMT -8
Here's the thing.
In the story were only have Alpha and Sola's supposition that Claude's a god. And Claude herself spinning theories on why she won't do certain things.
But is she really a god and does she really have all those powers? Or could she simply be a time traveller with more advanced technology that gives the impression of being godlike. Take Mxky(whatever) from Superman. In the Superman unvierse he's an almost godlike being, but in his own universe his powers are commonplace.
Or Thor and the Asgardians in the DC universe. They constantly refer to themselves as gods but are simply an exceedingly long lived race with a culture that mixes magic and technology.
My point is that the story closed off with the whole "Claude's a god" deal but we don't know for sure if that's the case.
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Post by gordon on Jul 2, 2016 23:45:01 GMT -8
I refer you to Arthur Clarke's third law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
If you complete Claude's secret ending in RT, much more of her background is explained.
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Post by Dextix on Jul 3, 2016 1:49:20 GMT -8
No it isnt, because its non canon, and non canon entities do not tie into the original story, that is why they are non canon.
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Post by longtimelurker on Jul 3, 2016 22:00:40 GMT -8
Damn I was finally done with exams and just finished Return, then find out this topic had again derailed into a semantics discussion... it's amazing how much mood can swing in such a short time lol. Anyways, even with the new info we get from Return, Claude is still on a "God" tier entity level (even if she isn't technically one), with powers that go far beyond what a person with simply a time travel device should be able to do like creating several copies of herself at the same time, summoning a freaking meteor, being practically invulnerable or basically being able to recreate reality despite causing a universe destroying paradox (yeah I'm refering to her idea of expanding that pocket dimension of hers with their kids that she tells Kayto). Crow time travel is cool, he depends on a device that can be disabled/destroyed and it seems somewhat limited to simply time transporting(probably not even working as intended considering the henchman's report).
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Post by zophor on Jul 4, 2016 3:39:36 GMT -8
I was under the impression that Return is non canon. Kinda like a "what if".
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Post by Nemjen on Jul 6, 2016 13:46:18 GMT -8
The way I have started looking at these alternative timeline games is that while the content may not be canon the themes can be, for example you get a more complete view of how Kayto behaves after viewing him in the third person. I think it is almost certain that the: device used by Claude in this DLC will be the same as the one in the main arc when it comes to the next Sunrider game. The only exception will be that Kayto will not have access to one directly like he does in the Claude route (unless that ending was actually meant to foreshadow something).
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Post by vaendryl on Jul 6, 2016 19:35:09 GMT -8
REturn is non-canon only in that as far as any future titles in the series are concerned none of the events in REturn happened. It is however canon as far as lore is concerned and any character backgrounds and/or motivations revealed still apply to the main series. In this sense it is more canon than Sunrider Academy, which truly is a separate (but still connected because lolforeshadowing) universe. I believe Claude knows the events in REturn are ultimately pointless, as even changing the past will only produce a new (non-canon!) universe but she does what she does anyway for her own reasons. be they simply amusement or actually just wanting Shields to have things go his way for once and have a potential happy ending. Tossing people around across various timelines just may be a way for a godlike being to 'get to know them better', like anyone else would invite someone to hang out. How can we tell how one so powerful would think?
I think it's very possible that in any future titles that continue on from where LibDay ended Claude does in fact know all that happened in REturn but it doesn't really affect anything that'll be going on around them, so it ends up being moot anyway.
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Post by Nemjen on Jul 6, 2016 22:03:14 GMT -8
I believe Claude knows the events in REturn are ultimately pointless, as even changing the past will only produce a new (non-canon!) universe but she does what she does anyway for her own reasons. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Claude is author surrogate for Samu.
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Post by vaendryl on Jul 6, 2016 22:07:41 GMT -8
In REturn surely.
makes her ending a bit award, now that I think of it.
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Post by admiralcheese on Jul 7, 2016 1:56:42 GMT -8
I believe Claude knows the events in REturn are ultimately pointless, as even changing the past will only produce a new (non-canon!) universe but she does what she does anyway for her own reasons. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Claude is author surrogate for Samu. Wrong way around actually. Samu is an author surrogate for Claude.
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Post by Nemjen on Jul 7, 2016 2:35:55 GMT -8
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Claude is author surrogate for Samu. Wrong way around actually. Samu is an author surrogate for Claude ... She always finds a way to pull the strings aye?
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Jul 7, 2016 22:59:53 GMT -8
The way I have started looking at these alternative timeline games is that while the content may not be canon the themes can be, for example you get a more complete view of how Kayto behaves after viewing him in the third person. I think it is almost certain that the: device used by Claude in this DLC will be the same as the one in the main arc when it comes to the next Sunrider game. The only exception will be that Kayto will not have access to one directly like he does in the Claude route (unless that ending was actually meant to foreshadow something). All due respect, but I don't see how that counters the fact that Claude rather pointedly told Alpha that she actually, physically endured explosive decompression of her Ryder - even going as far as to say it was bad for her skin. Surviving something like that rather definitively hints to a time-travel device most certainly not being her only trick - let's say for argument's sake she's not actually a God; if so, we're talking major cybernetic, nanotech or genetic enhancement to be able to survive something like that. And that's not even counting the knowledge she apparently has and how far-reaching it goes - there's a difference between hiding your intelligence and outright not being human. At the same time though... in the end, it's *still* pretty much semantical at this point - artificially-made or not, Claude's still a God/Deity by no stretch of the term. Additionally... I know it's mean, but that might actually be worse that people have to go through the toil and heartache of investing in a non-cannon entry just to learn themes that are apparently crucial to the main story yet weren't in said main story. Especially given what is STILL being complained about as a lackluster main story.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Jul 7, 2016 23:07:06 GMT -8
REturn is non-canon only in that as far as any future titles in the series are concerned none of the events in REturn happened. It is however canon as far as lore is concerned and any character backgrounds and/or motivations revealed still apply to the main series. In this sense it is more canon than Sunrider Academy, which truly is a separate (but still connected because lolforeshadowing) universe. I believe Claude knows the events in REturn are ultimately pointless, as even changing the past will only produce a new (non-canon!) universe but she does what she does anyway for her own reasons. be they simply amusement or actually just wanting Shields to have things go his way for once and have a potential happy ending. Tossing people around across various timelines just may be a way for a godlike being to 'get to know them better', like anyone else would invite someone to hang out. How can we tell how one so powerful would think?
I think it's very possible that in any future titles that continue on from where LibDay ended Claude does in fact know all that happened in REturn but it doesn't really affect anything that'll be going on around them, so it ends up being moot anyway. Yeah, but therein lies the PROBLEM with RE:Turn; you're making people care and get invested in something that is ultimately inconsequential to the story since nothing there changes anything, reveals anything that wasn't already known, or shows anything that's not imminently about to be revealed anyway. It's a headscratching moment for why, when the main story is critiqued for deficiency, you put all your effort into creating what's basically a spin-off instead of reinforcing the mid-game itself. Like you just said - "it's all moot." So why go through the trouble to make it when you could have covered these themes in the main game instead?
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Post by vaendryl on Jul 8, 2016 0:01:05 GMT -8
because changing the game midway would break savegames to all hell? probably not the real reason but it'll do for me.
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