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Post by Histidine on Feb 12, 2016 21:25:59 GMT -8
Random brief opinions on the last beta. Will add more items if they occur to me, and maybe Marx and Drath will have more detailed writeups  Here be (spoiler) dragons! Don't read till you've finished the beta yourself.GameplayMoney
Dosh seems a lot scarcer now, especially with the new Vanguard Cannon mod and having to buy the Summon Bigger Fish command. (It probably didn't help that I got stuck with a $900 repair bill on mission 1 after getting the Alliance Battleship shot up)
Still managed to buy out the whole store before starting the second last level though (without selling Wishall).
Final boss
The abilities (particularly the debuff resistance) are pretty clever. Even if the AoE laser attack came as a nasty surprise.
The sub-15000 HP reinforcement wave probably shouldn't have PACT Destroyers though. A first-time player might inadvertently trigger it late into their turn when they can't deal with it (needed units out of EN), and such a curveball where the player has no forewarning or ability to handle when it comes isn't what I view as good design.
Vanguard AoE ability
You have to pay through the nose for it, but being able to clear whole blobs of Assault Carriers and Fast Cruisers in one blow on multiple occasions in the game probably makes it a little too easy. This also saved me a lot of trouble with the Flier Drones. Not sure if OP, maybe the others have something to say.
Mercs
Union Battleship and Cera Gunboat can be purchased before the missions where they first appear. Should this be the case?
I was mildly disappointed that the player Assault Carrier can't spawn any ryders.
StoryGenerally nice and epic (in the traditional sense of the word). Except for a couple of parts I'll get to in a bit.
Claude dies!
I'll admit, I laughed at this scene. It came across as generally narmy, partly because of the fourth wall breaches ("[...] good for nothing but her boobs and... comic relief!!") and the overuse of exclamation marks!!!!
Also the Prototype's hypocrisy ("Fool... D-delivering long speeches in the middle of battle..."); yeah, I haven't forgotten that scene in Mask of Arcadius.
After I finished the game, I checked the script to see if different girls die based on who you have the least affection with. Alas, this wasn't the case.
Would've been fun as a way to create different variations for the last two levels.
Bug?
In the scene where Asaga goes ballistic, the enemy Prototype's dialogue uses the name Lynn, implying that she somehow escaped the brig and swiped a ryder. This is never seen in the game, nor is any such event referred to afterwards. I think it's supposed to be a generic prototype speaking?
Wishall
Will this ever be used for anything other than that one scene at the start of LD?
Cosette
On the other hand, I'm amused to see that she still doesn't have a role in the game. Though it'll just be my luck that she makes a surprise appearance and saves the day in the post-beta finale...
Ending
Literally all I could say was:
WTF
WTF
WTFFFFFFFFF
(This better not be one of those cases where a perfectly good ending is thrown away to add a bit more story followed by a not-satisfying ending... (Infinite Space, Mass Effect 3)) |
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Post by 白龍 on Feb 12, 2016 22:09:13 GMT -8
Money: Money for me was scarce until the mission where Asaga goes berserk. I farmed 20k from that mission and was sitting on around 30k by the end of the game with all things purchased. (Before that, I had to sell my wish all just to get by.)
Final Boss: >_<!--!! Yeah, the laser definitely caught me off guard. When it was followed by the Pact destroyers, it took out Chigara and 2 of my frigates. D: My second try went a lot more smoothly with no deaths until that second curve ball of AoE missiles.
Vanguard AoE ability: Yeah, it did seem a little too strong. I finished the second mission from the last in the first turn, and still had enough command points to do it again in the last mission. Though there was enough curve balls in the last mission to make it interesting at least.
Mercs: I was wondering about that too. Maybe it'll be fixed before the final release?
--> Claude dies!: I'm still in disbelief on that. One, 0.o she died. Two, now I can't do my Icari-Claude combo anymore. >_< I half expected Cosette to be dragged out of the brig and thrown in as a replacement Ryder.
Ending: 0.0
How... How will this play out I wonder? Coming next time, Sunrider 2: The Coming Darkness? |
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Post by warchiefwilliams on Feb 12, 2016 23:42:52 GMT -8
Lynn?: I agree with the above statement. Is that "Lynn" supposed to be a prototype or is it really Lynn, in which case, where the hell did she get that Arcadius Ryder from?
Wishall: The Wishall still only has that one use right at the start of the game. Will it gain another use elsewhere? (Ideally for the next point) Otherwise, I could always use the extra $10,000, especially with that awesome Vanguard Cannon upgrade...
Claude Dies!: Damn it. Boob rockets was sadly only good for comic relief. It really pisses me off that she had to go out that way. And we still know next to nothing about her! I may care about her because I tend to prefer side characters to the main ones, but to kill her with as little characterization that she had really rubs me the wrong way. Her loss is unfortunately lessened by her death speech being full of 4th wall breaking lines as pointed out by Histidine. It also doesn't help that pretty much every other character immediately gets over her death. The only person who seemed to care enough was Ava, who at least seemed to care enough to try and find a next of kin, though all she seemed to find out was something else...
Also, I kinda relied on Bianca for both dragging hostile ryders into Icari's swords and for debuffing capital ships. Removing her ruins the strategy that has suited me since MoA. I can't be the only one who did that, right?
Ms. Cosmos: The pirate queen is still rotting away in the brig and her ryder is collecting dust in my hanger. Can we please do something about it? I could have definitely used more torpedoes in that final battle.
Ending: Called it. I have been waiting for this moment for the entire run of the Beta. Haven't trusted that teal haired b**ch since the reveal of Arcadius at the end of MoA. Damn you Samu for using that ending as a sequel hook though!
(Just kidding about that last sentence. LoveinSpace should be commended for keeping me on the edge of my seat for the past few months.) |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 13, 2016 4:07:10 GMT -8
Vanguard AoE - The vanguard spread field is absolutely bonkers when you can afford it, especially if you also own the upgrade which increases your cap on command points to 5000. This allows you to short range warp above the enemy line and in most cases wipe out at least 50% (the aoe is more noticeable over long distances) of their units in one go. I can see this working with some of the older builds of the Vanguard to make it more viable but the fact the damage in unavoidable and there is only one unit in the game that has more than 4000 health points. Not that I am complaining too much as it has got me out of a few binds during my last play through.  Okay I was not taking into account the damage variation between difficulties, lot more happier with it now. On that note ... the track 'beat of the cosmos' and the Vanguard cannon sequence gave me a slight spine chill, it feels so satisfying. Lynn? - It seems as though Samu-Kun made a note of this in the tech sub section and mused that this is a different Lynn to the one held captive in the Sunrider. As this is a matter of association it sounds like the easiest way to solve this is just by making sure the captured Lynn has a unique name in comparison to her counterparts. Wishall - I suppose there is a chance it has another option or two in the final build but I doubt we are going to get any information on this until release day.  Maybe there is a decision that is to be made at the end of the game which also promotes a third path through the use of the Wishall? Guess we will find out soon...
Cosette - Considering we have an option to repair the Havoc after capturing her, I am surprised that in Beta 12 she is still no a playable unit.
Ending - Up until now the betrayal felt very 'too good to be true', I was musing with a few ideas: A - When Chigara connected to the prototypes she became corrupt although on the surface it did not look this way. B - Somehow Chigara was replaced by another prototype or the Alpha herself during the course of the story, I am also compelled to say I think Alice survives the destruction of the Nightmare Ascendant and still has a part to play. C - Somehow Claude is involved and covered for Chigara, it does seem strange how little we know about her and even the story touches upon this at the end with Ava. Also the mysterious holo message she finds? D - The writers have a deep harboring dislike for Chigara and didn't think killing her off was good enough, they decided to kill off her community appreciation instead. (yes, this is not a serious suggestion) Will be interesting to see how this resolves (or lays the way for a new Sunrider entry) on the 3rd March. |
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Post by warchiefwilliams on Feb 13, 2016 5:16:14 GMT -8
Ending - Up until now the betrayal felt very 'too good to be true', I was musing with a few ideas: A - When Chigara connected to the prototypes she became corrupt although on the surface it did not look this way. B - Somehow Chigara was replaced by another prototype or the Alpha herself during the course of the story, I am also compelled to say I think Alice survives the destruction of the Nightmare Ascendant and still has a part to play. C - Somehow Claude is involved and covered for Chigara, it does seem strange how little we know about her and even the story touches upon this at the end with Ava. Also the mysterious holo message she finds? D - The writers have a deep harboring dislike for Chigara and didn't think killing her off was good enough, they decided to kill off her community appreciation instead. (yes, this is not a serious suggestion) Will be interesting to see how this resolves (or lays the way for a new Sunrider entry) on the 3rd March. A- I don't really think so. Too much about Chigara has always screamed "Prototype" to me. She shares too many of their traits, and that little bit at the end with Ava only seems to confirm that. I mused that on the old forum that she was likely, if nothing else, a sleeper agent. Bare minimum, her role was to cause panic and distrust among the Sunrider's crew, especially after the Arcadius reveal.
B- See above. If Alpha did anything, it was reactivate Chigara's primary Prototype programming. Alice surviving would be interesting, but I doubt it, especially given the amount of firepower thrown her way both in story and in game.
C- I think the extent of Claude's involvement was that she found out during that medical test that she ran that Chigara is a Prototype, and Claude chose to cover it up for a few potential reasons:
1. She legitimately believed that Chigara wasn't a threat to the Sunrider or to Shields, and decided to keep that bit of information to herself.
2. Claude was aware of the risk that a Chigara Prototype would pose, but her urge to hook up Chigara and Shields overrode whatever feelings of caution could have. Claude's minimal characterization has shown her to be very much a lovesick individual, and perhaps her urge to hook the "young madien" with the "dashing captain" meant that whatever rational part of her mind that existed was quieted. This is the most likely option.
3. Claude was in on it, and intentionally kept to the data to herself, knowing it would be detrimental to the ship and further the Prototype's plans. I find that final option to be highly unlikely. I know that Claude's motivations are pretty much an unknown, so she could easily be privy to the Prototype's plans, but given the Prototypes dislike for humans in general, I doubt that they would let some diz in on their plans.
D-... While I can understand it when a writer hates a character enough to try and kill them off, whether actually or their popularity, I do not know if that is the case. (I know it wasn't a serious suggestion, but I still wanted to respond to it.) |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 13, 2016 7:42:47 GMT -8
Ending - Up until now the betrayal felt very 'too good to be true', I was musing with a few ideas: A - When Chigara connected to the prototypes she became corrupt although on the surface it did not look this way. B - Somehow Chigara was replaced by another prototype or the Alpha herself during the course of the story, I am also compelled to say I think Alice survives the destruction of the Nightmare Ascendant and still has a part to play. C - Somehow Claude is involved and covered for Chigara, it does seem strange how little we know about her and even the story touches upon this at the end with Ava. Also the mysterious holo message she finds? D - The writers have a deep harboring dislike for Chigara and didn't think killing her off was good enough, they decided to kill off her community appreciation instead. (yes, this is not a serious suggestion) Will be interesting to see how this resolves (or lays the way for a new Sunrider entry) on the 3rd March. A- I don't really think so. Too much about Chigara has always screamed "Prototype" to me. She shares too many of their traits, and that little bit at the end with Ava only seems to confirm that. I mused that on the old forum that she was likely, if nothing else, a sleeper agent. Bare minimum, her role was to cause panic and distrust among the Sunrider's crew, especially after the Arcadius reveal.
B- See above. If Alpha did anything, it was reactivate Chigara's primary Prototype programming. Alice surviving would be interesting, but I doubt it, especially given the amount of firepower thrown her way both in story and in game.
C- I think the extent of Claude's involvement was that she found out during that medical test that she ran that Chigara is a Prototype, and Claude chose to cover it up for a few potential reasons:
1. She legitimately believed that Chigara wasn't a threat to the Sunrider or to Shields, and decided to keep that bit of information to herself.
2. Claude was aware of the risk that a Chigara Prototype would pose, but her urge to hook up Chigara and Shields overrode whatever feelings of caution could have. Claude's minimal characterization has shown her to be very much a lovesick individual, and perhaps her urge to hook the "young madien" with the "dashing captain" meant that whatever rational part of her mind that existed was quieted. This is the most likely option.
3. Claude was in on it, and intentionally kept to the data to herself, knowing it would be detrimental to the ship and further the Prototype's plans. I find that final option to be highly unlikely. I know that Claude's motivations are pretty much an unknown, so she could easily be privy to the Prototype's plans, but given the Prototypes dislike for humans in general, I doubt that they would let some diz in on their plans.
D-... While I can understand it when a writer hates a character enough to try and kill them off, whether actually or their popularity, I do not know if that is the case. (I know it wasn't a serious suggestion, but I still wanted to respond to it.) A - I like the sleeper agent theory, that would tick quite a few boxes although it raises the questions about the segment where Chigara is communicating with the prototypes and the alpha. There is a detail included where she mentions that she can hear her friends and that they sound like they need help which would imply that she is free to communicate in this segment without been heard. With this been the case why would she so openly resist her own kind and the Alpha if she was consciously a sleeper agent? And if she was sub consciously an agent but was limited to only causing distrust instead of upfront sabotage (she does hold the position of chief engineer after all) why would the prototypes take such a risk on internal disruption dealing with them and so leaving the Sunrider to play a part in the confrontation on Cera (which lead to the loss of Nightmare Ascendant and their amassed PACT units - although Alice clearly shows that she sees human units as expendable)? I suppose another angle of this was she was kept free of core programming so that she could gather information freely on humans without the hive mind biasing the process, this would also mark the connection as a turning point where the Alpha has triggered some form of side effect like re writing her programming which could show that she had free will up to that point. B - The initial segment segment showed the Nightmare Ascendant survive the Vanguard Canon, considering the lack of information that the crew and Sola have on this Ryder in particular there is always the chance that there is additional functionality (eg. escape pod) which is not apparent in this build of the game. C - She legitimately believed that Chigara wasn't a threat to the Sunrider or to Shields, and decided to keep that bit of information to herself.I like this approach as it would also enforce a characteristic that she is caring of others and is trying to discretely defuse the tension and distrust between crew members, when combined with her final speech it would show that she thought very highly of all crew members. Guess we will see in the final build. On a side note I think you have answered some of your own speculation there:
How do we even know she is human? Claude could be an alias or a disguise for something else.
As Claude was in charge of the medical, is there not a chance she could have made an 'alteration' to Chigara?
You can have multiple levels of involvement, she did not need to be aware of all plans only those that were deemed suitable for her position.I will give you that it is an unlikely theory but with the theme of this game being 'betrayal' there is a chance that the writers are looking to trip people up even further. D - Boo stop trying to ruin my fun.  Now I know my ABCs,
Next time, won't you sing with me?At the end of the day I am speculating however part of the fun at least is trying to cover all the parallels that could occur.[/quote] |
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Post by warchiefwilliams on Feb 13, 2016 16:35:23 GMT -8
A- I don't really think so. Too much about Chigara has always screamed "Prototype" to me. She shares too many of their traits, and that little bit at the end with Ava only seems to confirm that. I mused that on the old forum that she was likely, if nothing else, a sleeper agent. Bare minimum, her role was to cause panic and distrust among the Sunrider's crew, especially after the Arcadius reveal.
B- See above. If Alpha did anything, it was reactivate Chigara's primary Prototype programming. Alice surviving would be interesting, but I doubt it, especially given the amount of firepower thrown her way both in story and in game.
C- I think the extent of Claude's involvement was that she found out during that medical test that she ran that Chigara is a Prototype, and Claude chose to cover it up for a few potential reasons:
1. She legitimately believed that Chigara wasn't a threat to the Sunrider or to Shields, and decided to keep that bit of information to herself.
2. Claude was aware of the risk that a Chigara Prototype would pose, but her urge to hook up Chigara and Shields overrode whatever feelings of caution could have. Claude's minimal characterization has shown her to be very much a lovesick individual, and perhaps her urge to hook the "young madien" with the "dashing captain" meant that whatever rational part of her mind that existed was quieted. This is the most likely option.
3. Claude was in on it, and intentionally kept to the data to herself, knowing it would be detrimental to the ship and further the Prototype's plans. I find that final option to be highly unlikely. I know that Claude's motivations are pretty much an unknown, so she could easily be privy to the Prototype's plans, but given the Prototypes dislike for humans in general, I doubt that they would let some diz in on their plans.
D-... While I can understand it when a writer hates a character enough to try and kill them off, whether actually or their popularity, I do not know if that is the case. (I know it wasn't a serious suggestion, but I still wanted to respond to it.) A - I like the sleeper agent theory, that would tick quite a few boxes although it raises the questions about the segment where Chigara is communicating with the prototypes and the alpha. There is a detail included where she mentions that she can hear her friends and that they sound like they need help which would imply that she is free to communicate in this segment without been heard. With this been the case why would she so openly resist her own kind and the Alpha if she was consciously a sleeper agent? And if she was sub consciously an agent but was limited to only causing distrust instead of upfront sabotage (she does hold the position of chief engineer after all) why would the prototypes take such a risk on internal disruption dealing with them and so leaving the Sunrider to play a part in the confrontation on Cera (which lead to the loss of Nightmare Ascendant and their amassed PACT units - although Alice clearly shows that she sees human units as expendable)? I suppose another angle of this was she was kept free of core programming so that she could gather information freely on humans without the hive mind biasing the process, this would also mark the connection as a turning point where the Alpha has triggered some form of side effect like re writing her programming which could show that she had free will up to that point. B - The initial segment segment showed the Nightmare Ascendant survive the Vanguard Canon, considering the lack of information that the crew and Sola have on this Ryder in particular there is always the chance that there is additional functionality (eg. escape pod) which is not apparent in this build of the game. C - She legitimately believed that Chigara wasn't a threat to the Sunrider or to Shields, and decided to keep that bit of information to herself.I like this approach as it would also enforce a characteristic that she is caring of others and is trying to discretely defuse the tension and distrust between crew members, when combined with her final speech it would show that she thought very highly of all crew members. Guess we will see in the final build. On a side note I think you have answered some of your own speculation there:
How do we even know she is human? Claude could be an alias or a disguise for something else.
As Claude was in charge of the medical, is there not a chance she could have made an 'alteration' to Chigara?
You can have multiple levels of involvement, she did not need to be aware of all plans only those that were deemed suitable for her position.I will give you that it is an unlikely theory but with the theme of this game being 'betrayal' there is a chance that the writers are looking to trip people up even further. D - Boo stop trying to ruin my fun. Now I know my ABCs,
Next time, won't you sing with me?Changing the listing method... Один: The best answer I have for you is to think about Boomer from the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Boomer was there to be the Cylon's mole onboard the Galactica and for small-scale sabotage. It is inferred that Chigara did conduct some sabotage, (remember Ava chewing Shields out regarding their stealth mission at Helion and other such incidents?) but I think that her primary role may just be that of intel-gathering. Didn't Alpha say that it was by good fortune that Chigara was able to get onto the Sunrider? Wasn't her primary role just to shadow Asaga? Despite Chigara's position as Chief Engineer, if the Prototypes truly just want to use Chigara as a data mole, it wouldn't make sense to have her doing things that could destroy the ship or otherwise alert the crew to anything suspicious. Shield's lover or not, if Ava detected sabotage that could have only been caused by the Chief Engineer, Chigara would be brigged and there is nothing Shields could do about it. Ava would hide the key. Два: I will concede that point. Alice seems to rank a bit too high on the Prototype food chain for her to not have a back-up in case of the Nightmare's destruction. But would she use it though? With the arrogance to rival Grand Moff Tarkin ("Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?") something tells me that she would never concede defeat to "human filth" by retreating. Тре: Part of this problem stems from the utter lack of characterization Claude had prior to her unfortunate end. We know next to nothing other than she has to have had a fair amount of medical training (enough to put Shields back together in MoA and Ava back together if you destroy the Legion), is a pervert and has a thing for the Captain (like every other primary female character). I know that there were plans to expand on Claude's story back in MoA, but they didn't go for it due to budget shortfalls. Regarding your theory though, would the Prototypes (a race of Nietzschian Übermensches) really trust Claude (a ditzy, perverted doctor who has had her medical licence revoked) with any level of their plans? Четыре:  |
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Post by BITE ME UNIVERSE on Feb 15, 2016 13:00:21 GMT -8
Claude: Yeah, I felt bad as she was saying that stuff...then she died allegedly and I felt reaaaaaaally bad for her. All the times I said bad things, all the times I called her the girl on the side that you can get with no matter who you end up with....it was a bit sad. Chigara:Yeah.............that was..............painful...........and I was pretty much in Kayto's position when it happened............like, same reaction......when it happened, the moment lasted a long time to me as well...... As the hardcore Chigara fan...that was terrible. Like, everything Kayto felt, I felt, maybe more because I'm irl....my chest actually hurts and everything I loved was just destroyed.... This is literally me after that beta....  Idk guys, I can't deal with this..... |
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Post by warchiefwilliams on Feb 15, 2016 14:53:37 GMT -8
Claude: Yeah, I felt bad as she was saying that stuff...then she died allegedly and I felt reaaaaaaally bad for her. All the times I said bad things, all the times I called her the girl on the side that you can get with no matter who you end up with....it was a bit sad. Chigara:Yeah.............that was..............painful...........and I was pretty much in Kayto's position when it happened............like, same reaction......when it happened, the moment lasted a long time to me as well...... As the hardcore Chigara fan...that was terrible. Like, everything Kayto felt, I felt, maybe more because I'm irl....my chest actually hurts and everything I loved was just destroyed.... This is literally me after that beta.... Idk guys, I can't deal with this..... Firstly Sorry BMU, the writing has been on the wall since the end of MoA. It was only a matter of time before she turned on us all. We on the forum are always here for you if you want to talk. Here is some virtual cookies and vodka for you. Should help a little.  Secondly: Where does the series go from here? We have gotten no closer to identifying: - The Prototypes main goal. Is their interest in humanity in general just to use us as cannon fodder against the "Ebon Fleet"? Or are they looking to recreate one of the short stories from I, Robot, where the AIs take over and rule over humanity for their own sake?
- Just what is the Ebon Fleet? References in both MoA and Academy seem to hint at it being Ryuvian Remnants under the command Crow Harbor, but as far as we know it could very well be Tyranids, errant Space Whales, or some other xeno race.
- Forget the Ebon Fleet and Prototypes, just where does the political situation of the galaxy currently lie? While Fontana and Grey seemed to be getting along relatively alright right before the betrayal, the last time we saw them in peace talks, they broke down very quickly. The PACT and Alliance may still wish to continue the war after Cera's liberation. Also, can we even determine if they are still alive? I went back and counted the number of times Chigara fired her pistol at the end. Unless she put all five of the rounds into Shields, we have to assume that she also assassinated Admiral Grey and Veniczar Fontana. This assumption is also supported by the fact that she said "All of you... can die now...". I interpret that as he first shooting Shields then turning her weapon on the various PACT and Alliance leadership present.
Seriously, where does the series go from here? I need to know!
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 15, 2016 15:13:53 GMT -8
Claude: Yeah, I felt bad as she was saying that stuff...then she died allegedly and I felt reaaaaaaally bad for her. All the times I said bad things, all the times I called her the girl on the side that you can get with no matter who you end up with....it was a bit sad. Chigara:Yeah.............that was..............painful...........and I was pretty much in Kayto's position when it happened............like, same reaction......when it happened, the moment lasted a long time to me as well...... As the hardcore Chigara fan...that was terrible. Like, everything Kayto felt, I felt, maybe more because I'm irl....my chest actually hurts and everything I loved was just destroyed.... This is literally me after that beta.... Idk guys, I can't deal with this..... Oh dear, you are not you when you are hungry - here eat a snickers. Better?  warchiefwilliams :
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Post by warchiefwilliams on Feb 15, 2016 20:44:08 GMT -8
Enis: A twist within a twist within a twist? Confusing? Yes. Would it be awesome? If it is well crafted (and I have no doubt that it would be) it would change everything, well more than things have already changed.
Zwei: Are we implying that the Nightmare Ascendant has modules built in with the sole purpose of being used to spoof its foe's into think it has been destroyed? It seems excessive and like a waste, but we have seen and heard about stranger things from Ryuvia. Why can't we have any of the really crazy toys? (excluding AoE Vanguard Cannon) If that is the case though, why did Alice retreat? In game terms, unless you are playing on Waifu mode, the Nightmare Ascendant is more than capable of wrecking everything on the battlefield. Even in a damaged state, it would probably still be more than capable of doing a fair amount of damage. Why flee? Unless the other PACT ships loyal to the prototypes fled after the Nightmare Ascendant's "destruction", but even then, why would Alice wreck the morale of her followers by having a death scream?
In summary, I don't think that this Alice is alive. HOWEVER, given how the Prototypes seem to have a cloning facility on Diode, I would not be surprised if there is another Alice variant out there.
Drei: I don't know about the underlying dislike part. While, yes, Alice harbors a very strong dislike towards humanity, Alpha seems to regard them with curiosity. Perhaps not a healthy form of curiosity, but it seems like she is bemused by humanity's actions rather than enraged by them, like Alice. Again, we know too little about Claude to really make a call either way. Perhaps there will be more once Ava sifts through her gear (once the sex toys have been disposed of.
Vier: It's amazing that societies in the past tried to do that, isn't it? |
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Post by saotomefirst on Feb 16, 2016 10:26:25 GMT -8
Ok, just got through Beta 12 and I had some considerations as well... FAIR WARNING: There are SPOILERS here. Please don't open until you've completed the latest beta or the game itself. First and most important: MY WAIFU WAS KILLED!!!  I don't know what's more unbelievable, that a double shielded Ryder - she had shields of her own and she was standing right next to Liberty too - was killed with a laser shot, or the fact that no one really gave a damm about her afterwards - ok, Asaga did feel a bit bad (although if I could weight the values in her heart at that moment, I'd say guilt for getting Claude killed was 1/3 of her shame for her feelings towards the captain), and Ava even tried to make a positive mind note (well, that's a start I guess), but what about the others??? I lost the count on how many times her Damage up allowed Sola to insta-kill a ship, or the number of times her Gravity Gun gave Icari an extra kill on the battlefield. Not to mention her Aim Down, which saved everyone's day tons of times by forcing enemies to move even closer to take a shot, getting them killed in the process. And no one seemed to care about her death all that much. I'll bet that, if the captain got injured in the final scene, they will miss her. Now, with that said, I'm feeling a bit sorry for all the Chigara lovers after that ending. As much as I hate her - really, with all those beauties inside that ship, Shields had to pick the most childish one?? - and as much as I'd love to just get her killed, I immediately thought of a couple explanations for that: 1- It's not Chigara! Remember, there's a legion of her clones across the galaxy, it's very possible one of them swapped places with her after the battle was over, when the crew was too busy celebrating their victory to notice anything weird. I'd start by checking the brig - who knows, maybe there's a prototype there screaming her lungs out "I'm Chigara, you have to believe me! Call the captain, it's a trap!". Also, I wouldn't be surprised if she said right after the end scene "It's me, Alpha!". Her death was not confirmed, and even if she died, she'll just respawn, right? 2- It is Chigara, but she's being mind controlled. The prototypes do communicate via their mind network, and as seen in MoA and in the second part of the battle of Cera they can actually control one another with their minds. They tried to control Chigara during that battle but failed. Maybe they just tried harder this time, or maybe she didn't realize she was being mind controlled and that's why it worked out this time? I also had some insights about the game mechanics, like the infinite money/intel generator (for the record, I got Sola to shoot 4 TIMES IN A TURN thanks to that - it felt soooooo gooooooooood XD), but I see there are other betas that seemed to address those issues, at least partially. I'll have to download and play the latest one to make some valid comments. I'd just like to say a couple things up front: 1- I'm not a huge fan of the Vanguard Cannon as it is right now... It's nice to destroy half of the enemies on the map, but not getting a single command point out of that is really bad, especially now that CPs have a cap. I always try to use it on battleships - the only regular unit that can withstand a direct hit and survive. Everything else that's hit is wasted CPs... 2- Still about the Vanguard Cannon, but the splash part. It's expensive - and I believe it should be, but there are a few issues with it. First, I can't really tell just by looking at it which tiles deal full damage and which ones doesn't. I do have some experience with that cannon, and on very specific cases I can kind of get it right, but most of the time I just end up hitting a battleship for 1000 damage and the Ryder right next to it for 2000. It's really annoying. There should be an indicator of some sort to tell players where the damage will be lower/higher. Second, 1000 splash damage is too good. Again, only battleships can withstand that and survive. Maybe the damage should be rescaled? Like, the furthest away from the source the weaker the effect should be? Or maybe just a damage reduction to, say, 1/3 of the total damage instead of half? Maybe even less, and then you could add up another purchase/research to allow a player to increase the damage? 3- To the development team, one word: BRAVO! You did manage to get torpedoes fired without my will involved! On that final mission, having those ships spawn not at the beginning of the round but after the boss loss a certain amount of life was brilliant! It caught me off guard, I had nothing to take even one of the Destroyers down. Ok, only 1 torpedo passed through my flak wall, but it devastated my defenses. I almost lost a frigate and the Liberty, and ended up losing a gunboat. That will never happen again, but it was really well done! Ok, that was quite a lot, and I still have more to say, but I'll have to update myself and play the latest beta before I return. Time to work more!  |
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Post by cross on Feb 16, 2016 17:10:12 GMT -8
So I played the latest Beta. 12.03 But here is my feedback, not my mind about everything, just somethings. Thats not a proper review...most of it its my shouting out all the things displeasing me. - Killing Koset or not, realy so irrelevant or to repair her Ryder...shesh I do hope this will have any bareable Effect in teh Next Part
- Chigara as the Lover...oh hell no witch freeking siscon hentai, thought of that. At the end odf MoA she was something like the Best friend and a little Sister but not a Lover and than out of nowwhere you're going to be all lovely dovely with her and banging her WTF such an Epic Fail.
- A Death WTF how dare you and then ithere isn't even a ceremony or anything...poor Claude not my favourite but she deserved way better
- Fighting is buggy, sometimes your vessel gets selected ater an action sometimes not, thats so anoying
- All in all it is a very short story...wish there where more Side Missions to Prepare for the Final Battle
- Also there are too little Interactins with the crew, said I too little I meant NO there are a few cutcenes and THATS IT no desicions whatsoverer
- Everything done in MoA and before feels irrelevant and teh choosing, when no savegame gets imported is sooo irrelevant too...the game is the same here and there a bit difference in the lines but thats it....I didn't try everyone soe excause me if there are combinations changeing the game...I doubt that hardly
- Is Lynn free or was there a bug?
- The farewells of Sola and Asaga are so dull I hope they become a better welcome back in the next Part of the Game
- The all in all no descission to make thing is borring as hell...just chose what to upgrade and thats it
- War is over but somehow everything is to easy, the real threat is to far away to be seen, either is the way, why does the prototypes do what they do (Yeah sure the want to defeat the ebony army greate)
- A lot of things could have been deeper like Asaga and her 2nd selfe or Ava and how she is feeling and aranging herself with chigara beeing the chosen one
- Clodes Holo what is in it!?! did she found out chigara isn't human and keept it a secret? Who is she what is she is she maybe still alive? I do want to know
- Will ava rescu her beloved? And will she kill Chgara (please pllease please let her do it an Kayto never find out)
- all in all, im great displeased with LibDay MoA was so much better in many ways....if I just want to get a Story I read a real novel or watch anime in a Game I want to deside the Story and not only this or that. also when there are such heavy fights I want to be able to improve my squad, but there is no way to do this
- Did I mention how much I hate Chigara, not because of the end but in generall
Wel there is much more I could tell and put in a better eview but now it doesn't count anymore. Only one thing to do... Wait fo rthe steam key, install the final version and play it at a challenging difficulty. With everything auto skip, cause the bullshit will be the same and at last hope for an better part after and a soon part after. |
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Post by BITE ME UNIVERSE on Feb 16, 2016 17:29:05 GMT -8
Firstly Sorry BMU, the writing has been on the wall since the end of MoA. It was only a matter of time before she turned on us all. We on the forum are always here for you if you want to talk. Here is some virtual cookies and vodka for you. Should help a little. Thanks for the offer Warchief. Claude: Yeah, I felt bad as she was saying that stuff...then she died allegedly and I felt reaaaaaaally bad for her. All the times I said bad things, all the times I called her the girl on the side that you can get with no matter who you end up with....it was a bit sad. Chigara:Yeah.............that was..............painful...........and I was pretty much in Kayto's position when it happened............like, same reaction......when it happened, the moment lasted a long time to me as well...... As the hardcore Chigara fan...that was terrible. Like, everything Kayto felt, I felt, maybe more because I'm irl....my chest actually hurts and everything I loved was just destroyed.... This is literally me after that beta.... Idk guys, I can't deal with this..... Oh dear, you are not you when you are hungry - here eat a snickers. Better? I'm allergic to chocolate. ._. But I used to LOVE EATHING SNICKERS!! THEY ARE AMAZING!! Ok, just got through Beta 12 and I had some considerations as well... FAIR WARNING: There are SPOILERS here. Please don't open until you've completed the latest beta or the game itself.
1- It's not Chigara! Remember, there's a legion of her clones across the galaxy, it's very possible one of them swapped places with her after the battle was over, when the crew was too busy celebrating their victory to notice anything weird. I'd start by checking the brig - who knows, maybe there's a prototype there screaming her lungs out "I'm Chigara, you have to believe me! Call the captain, it's a trap!". Also, I wouldn't be surprised if she said right after the end scene "It's me, Alpha!". Her death was not confirmed, and even if she died, she'll just respawn, right?
2- It is Chigara, but she's being mind controlled. The prototypes do communicate via their mind network, and as seen in MoA and in the second part of the battle of Cera they can actually control one another with their minds. They tried to control Chigara during that battle but failed. Maybe they just tried harder this time, or maybe she didn't realize she was being mind controlled and that's why it worked out this time?
Ok, that was quite a lot, and I still have more to say, but I'll have to update myself and play the latest beta before I return. Time to work more! Yeah, that's still a possibility in my mind and whatnot. Possible one sunk aboard the ship. Still makes her a huge target. Also, there's still Lynn.... So I played the latest Beta. 12.03 But here is my feedback, not my mind about everything, just somethings. Thats not a proper review...most of it its my shouting out all the things displeasing me. - Chigara as the Lover...oh hell no witch freeking siscon hentai, thought of that. At the end odf MoA she was something like the Best friend and a little Sister but not a Lover and than out of nowwhere you're going to be all lovely dovely with her and banging her WTF such an Epic Fail.
- Everything done in MoA and before feels irrelevant and teh choosing, when no savegame gets imported is sooo irrelevant too...the game is the same here and there a bit difference in the lines but thats it....I didn't try everyone soe excause me if there are combinations changeing the game...I doubt that hardly
- Did I mention how much I hate Chigara, not because of the end but in generall
Few things: 1) Last I knew, you could import your choices. When was the last time you played the game? They added a patch after the final battle that gives you a file to import. 2) Last I knew, there WAS a HUGE hint that they were going to be in a relationship together. 3) ..............siscon? What? She's not a sister. She doesn't even resemble one. Even without my hard love for chigara, she's not a little sister. In fact, if you know of Kayto's actual little sister, you know that it's FAR from his little sister. She's just a proper moe girl like Onodera from Nisekoi. |
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Post by cross on Feb 18, 2016 15:11:09 GMT -8
Few things: 1) Last I knew, you could import your choices. When was the last time you played the game? They added a patch after the final battle that gives you a file to import. 2) Last I knew, there WAS a HUGE hint that they were going to be in a relationship together. 3) ..............siscon? What? She's not a sister. She doesn't even resemble one. Even without my hard love for chigara, she's not a little sister. In fact, if you know of Kayto's actual little sister, you know that it's FAR from his little sister. She's just a proper moe girl like Onodera from Nisekoi. I did'nt mean to say Chigara i shis sister, just meant that in my eyes she is as a little sister. Kaytos real sister is much more interesting thou. |
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Post by tsaieric on Feb 21, 2016 9:07:53 GMT -8
My inputs along with bugs I discovered are as following: Gameplay: -It crashed throughout the second battle for every single turn for me
-Bianca uses restore in first battle of Cera causes crash
-The purchased units would sometimes gets stuck in the deployment phase in the deployment panel
-Game would crash when you press start after deploying units in second Cera battle
-Third battle of Cera, Bianca is still there after it is destroyed in the story.
-Allies factions would still intercept launched missile
Story: -Where is Cosette? She just sits in the brig for all of the story and no appearance. I do agree with others that you need to make use of her more for story. Plus, you should develop a bit more with how and why she came to fight for the protagonist.
-Lynn, not too much story after Asaga's conversation, should make more use of her in story for post beta finale.
-I suspected it would end up this way, because Chigara was just too darn perfect. I imagined she was brainwashed or programmed this way, she will then revert back to her old self surprised at what she did. I suspected Claude had some involvement as well. Misc: -Solaris Federation or Alliance? (Renpou is federation in Japanese and Doumen is alliance)
-Instances where everyone spoke has static noise in the voice acting. |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 21, 2016 9:18:17 GMT -8
My inputs along with bugs I discovered are as following: Gameplay: -It crashed throughout the second battle for every single turn for me
-Bianca uses restore in first battle of Cera causes crash
-The purchased units would sometimes gets stuck in the deployment phase in the deployment panel
-Game would crash when you press start after deploying units in second Cera battle
-Third battle of Cera, Bianca is still there after it is destroyed in the story. Firstly could you confirm what version of the beta you are running? If it is anything other than 12.4a (confirmation is on the main menu when you boot up) you will need to try updating your version as this is the most current. Does any of the above still occur? If so you are better off breaking this down and posting it in the technical subsection found here. -Instances where everyone spoke has static noise in the voice acting. . |
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Post by tsaieric on Feb 21, 2016 10:27:11 GMT -8
My inputs along with bugs I discovered are as following: Gameplay: -It crashed throughout the second battle for every single turn for me
-Bianca uses restore in first battle of Cera causes crash
-The purchased units would sometimes gets stuck in the deployment phase in the deployment panel
-Game would crash when you press start after deploying units in second Cera battle
-Third battle of Cera, Bianca is still there after it is destroyed in the story. Firstly could you confirm what version of the beta you are running? If it is anything other than 12.4a (confirmation is on the main menu when you boot up) you will need to try updating your version as this is the most current. Does any of the above still occur? If so you are better off breaking this down and posting it in the technical subsection found here. -Instances where everyone spoke has static noise in the voice acting. . I was running 12.3. I didn't realize another version had come out. I guess since the voice part can't be helped, I will rest my case on those points. However, the translation for Solaris Alliance still needs to be fixed though. |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 21, 2016 10:48:24 GMT -8
However, the translation for Solaris Alliance still needs to be fixed though. That is if it isn't intentional sabotage by CERA to damage the reputation of the Alliance. Samu-Kun is actually an agent spreading propaganda for something that is occurring in another universe.   |
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Post by worstwaifu on Feb 28, 2016 9:30:17 GMT -8
As far as the Story is concerned, I agree with the OP. I'm still in the 'what the zog' stage of responding to it.
Not sure if it's really good or really bad, and I'm not sure I'm in the best position to judge which. But basically throughout the last bit of beta, I jumped from 'I really hate this to I really love this and back and forth at least twice more'.
I would comment mechanically, but it seems like I'm not playing the latest beta version.
Only real complaint I can pose is that whenever 'everyone' is speaking, I get static in my speakers. Not sure if this is known. Might just be my monitor.
Warm regards all.
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Post by Drath on Mar 1, 2016 15:32:31 GMT -8
Sorry for the late reply, Histidine . My thoughts on the issues you've raised: Gameplay: Funds
I had 51+k playing on 12.4a (repair costs now based on damage taken) before the last battle. Decided to get Vanguard Spread Field and the whole rocket package (Quantum Torpedo License, Expanded Torpedo storage, MIRV torpedoes), so that left me with 19k or so. Didn't really bother with the rest. I think having Vanguard Spread Field already trivializes any battle.
Final boss
I also liked the debuff resistance and of course being immune to Liberty's Disable (would otherwise have been totally trivial). I didn't experience a AoE laser attack. I opened with Vanguard Cannon and after all my units fired, all that was left was the boss and a flier.
1st turn: it shot Sunrider twice from far. Didn't move. At 70% shielding, its lasers don't really do that much damage.
2nd turn: it meleed and killed Phoenix (for being too near I guess despite Stealth). Should have gotten the Union Battleship to pull Phoenix away a bit.
3rd turn: it actually did nothing (melee AI acting up? Couldn't find a spot to hit Sunrider?)
It didn't get a 4th turn as it was quite dead by then.
I also agree that having PACT destroyers in the sub-15000 hp reinforcement wave is probably going to cause some rage. I'd rather not take it out to preserve difficulty, but a warning that the boss's troops are waiting in the wings at 16k hps would be good.
The Research and Store screens were no longer available after the boss battle so I'm thinking this really is the end? (at least for battles)
Vanguard AoE
I still think the final battle is doable without it, but using it early trivializes the initial bunch of enemies. And yes, flier drones will require quite a bit offense devoted to them otherwise as they have insane evasion.
Mercs
Union Battleship is now patched to only be available after mission 5. Cera Gunboats have always been available since mission 2 and there's no in-game code to indicate that the devs think otherwise. I take it that the remnants of Cera's forces decided to join up with Sunrider after the victory against Legion.
For greater glory and freedom for Cera! Story:
Claude
I giggled as well at her scene. Well I wouldn't wish her dead but if some pilot had to die to service the plot, in terms of gameplay, I think she would be the least missed. She's mostly either a Gravity Gun bot or a Atk Up buffer these days. The Gravity Gun part is now covered by the Union Battleship. Loss of Atk Up is just damage.
Also there is time still to retrieve any Intel invested in Bianca before she gets shot. I didn't do it though. Didn't feel quite right to me. Lost 1.4k, not a big deal.
Bug?
Yea the Lynn part kinda confused me as well. Might have to go back and see if I can make any sense of it.
Wishall
Well it would be nice to see more uses for it. That being said, allowing the player to tick a box and get it for free at the start of the game is rather cheap. I assumed I was continuing my SW MoA run and had already sold it.
Cosette
I have a sinking feeling this is NOT the end and we're going to have more Sunrider. I'm fine with more episodes, but I think this one should have at least a feel of completeness to it. Right now's there just too many loose ends like Cosette, the Ebon fleet, the Alpha...
Ending
I was quite shocked as well. There is definitely more story here. I think Ava after reading Claude's holo will hurry to the rescue or discover something that might partially salvage the situation.
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Post by Drath on Mar 2, 2016 0:40:20 GMT -8
Samu-kun vaendrylI've enjoyed playing through missions 7, 8 and 9 on v12.4a and do feel that they are all nicely scripted. Mission 8 feels a little short, but it's ok to have a breather from time to time. Here are some further thoughts on various game aspects. General balance for Intel upgrades
As before I remain quite happy with how things are with this section. Generally if you have been focussing primarily on offensive upgrades, you should be running out of good options towards the end of the game and are not going to get something unbalancing like an Octapulse or higher Sunrider, without very heavily sacrificing all other offensive means, which would defeat the purpose of upgrading that far.
Pulse still looks good for Sunrider and Blackjack but no longer with the extreme margin it had in v7.2 MoA. Also you get enough enemies with shielding and armor (ie Assault Carriers now have 2800hps, 40 armor and are no longer an ideal target for pulse) that good use of it still requires some thought and calculation. Lasers remain one of the go to weapons against high evasion units which are placed at range.
Kinetics still occupy a strong role in initial damage and getting armor low enough for other attack options to be effective. This is further boosted midgame by having more kinetic capable ships in Ryuvian Falcons (4 extra strong kinetics per turn is nothing to be trifled at).
Missiles are back in strong form in Liberation Day, with a few cost reduction upgrades sometimes contributing greatly to turn 1 burst damage.
So yea, in terms of offensive options, upgrades for these are well balanced and the units themselves well designed!
Now if only there were enemy units that forced you upgrade defensively xD
Final boss (further thoughts)
As noted previously, the boss only meleed Phoenix in turn 2 during my play and did not use BossRocket as per library.rpy, which would have been quite damaging. Furthermore it totally froze in turn 3 when surrounded by Cera Gunboats and did nothing. It has some pretty mean abilities like BossLaser after it awakens. Some additional testing is probably warranted here. All help/suggestions to help improve/fix the AI is heartily welcome.
Vanguard Cannon
The original VGC was 800 damage for 6 hexes, which could be further augmented to 1000 damage for 7 hexes. Let's assume we take the augmented version as baseline, 1000 damage for 2500CP, the new VGC in Liberation Day is more efficient CP-wise and stronger (2000 damage for 4000CP). Couple this with unlimited range and you further extend the lead that the new VGC has. Being able to deal more than twice the expected damage CP wise is also incredible in terms of burst damage.
This was not so evident before as we were capped at 4000CP, so essentially the CP cap made it difficult to use SRW to reposition Sunrider for optimal kills. But now that we have a store item that increases it to 5000CP, VGC damage should be seriously reevaluated. 1600 damage for 4000CP would only bring it back to parity with the old damage/CP VGC ratio. Factoring in beam extension is situational, as is factoring in the impact of greater burst damage. 1500 damage for 4000CP would hardly be amiss though broadly speaking, as increasing the number of targets is not difficult when you have multiple applications of Gravity Gun (Bianca, Union Battleships).
Vanguard Spread Field throws balance even further out of whack, increasing effective VGC damage by 1.5-2.0X in some cases. Yes the Funds required to get it are high, but quite achievable after mission 3. That still leaves 6 missions open to VGC domination.
Funds (final call)
My original suggestion was to have Funds pared down to 20% of the current value. With Repairs tied to total damage instead of end of battle hps, perhaps 20% is too harsh and it could be raised to 50% of enemy destruction reward (instead of 100% as it is now with repair cost reduction).
Then the choice would be meaningful. Do you want all additional mercenary ships? Or MIRV and Summon Alliance Battleship? Or Vanguard Spread Field? As Histidine as stated above, you can still buy everything in the store with current Funds and that's really too much. There is no longer any choice on the part of the player. Just get everything regardless of usefulness/importance.
Some figures for endgame balancing purposes:
Current total enemy destruction reward (missions 1-8): 82k
Assuming 12k (which is quite a lot, as half of that is possible with careful play) spent in repairs, that still leaves 70k, which is really very much in excess. I propose a Funds gain of 50% of enemy destruction reward as stated above, which would come up to 41-42k and leave the player with roughly 30k after repairs. The starting sum of 13000 Funds is more than enough to cover the old merc ships (2 Alliance Cruisers, 3 Union Frigates) in addition to the 4 new Cera Gunboats and the Gravitino Generator, Portable Repair Booster. 30k doesn't cover Vanguard Spread Field, Quantum Torpedo License, MIRV Torpedo License, Extended Torpedo Storage, Summon Alliance Battleship amongst the more major items, so some decision needs to be made as to what to go for.
Multiple Orders per turn
This allows CP to be spent more freely and the main abuse of it in terms of Summon Battleship spam has been curbed. Still I just want to state that the game remains quite playable with 1 order per turn (with SRW being the exception) as before in MoA. Having multiple orders simplifies gameplay decisions considerably. Have Sunrider well protected and Vanguard early on to attract aggro and you can repair to full easily with Liberty and Repair Drones. As noted previously, FF+AG in crucial turns maximizes damage output while also minimizing damage taken.
No penalty on downgrades
I've kinda made peace with this one as in I tolerate it being there, but won't use it. I suppose if attack options are balanced enough it should not matter too much and encouraging experimentation is probably not a bad idea.
Concluding thoughts and suggestions:
Battles in Liberation Day remain as fun as they were before in FA and MoA but the scope feels more epic as you now have a very sizable fleet accompanying Sunrider. However, despite being the final part of the trilogy, in terms of difficulty the battles here really aren't more difficult than their FA/MoA counterparts. There are no escort missions with massive reinforcements. Or missions with different objectives (ie kiting an enemy, destroying a particular structure that gives invulnerability to enemy units, taking a base within a given amount of turns, etc). In some battles, the challenge can be trivialized by using overpowered store items (ie Marx's 1 turn kill of all Ryuvian units).
Suggest reducing Funds, consider lowering VGC damage as balance tweaks and have another look at Nightmare Ascendant AI
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I don't know what's more unbelievable, that a double shielded Ryder - she had shields of her own and she was standing right next to Liberty too - was killed with a laser shot, or the fact that no one really gave a damm about her afterwards - ok, Asaga did feel a bit bad (although if I could weight the values in her heart at that moment, I'd say guilt for getting Claude killed was 1/3 of her shame for her feelings towards the captain), and Ava even tried to make a positive mind note (well, that's a start I guess), but what about the others??? I lost the count on how many times her Damage up allowed Sola to insta-kill a ship, or the number of times her Gravity Gun gave Icari an extra kill on the battlefield. Not to mention her Aim Down, which saved everyone's day tons of times by forcing enemies to move even closer to take a shot, getting them killed in the process. And no one seemed to care about her death all that much. I'll bet that, if the captain got injured in the final scene, they will miss her.
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