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Post by limith on Feb 24, 2017 4:08:17 GMT -8
vladek So I had a discussion with a product guy (I'm an individual contributor aka worker) on what is important as from a Product management side and he said that it is important to understand the root needs of the client (us in this case) rather than to just listen to the direct suggestions to do X or Y. As Magpie said, this is so that the development team can either a) better educate the clients b) figure out alternative means of addressing the root issue given resource constraints or c) implement a better solution that resolves the a larger (more generic) issue that covers potential future problems rather than a small (or maybe large) nitpick. _________________ That being said, on the client side, it's hard to not make direct suggestions and nitpicks. xD I guess immediate feedback is that I noticed chapter 2 is only 1.3 GB as a download, so .3 GB more than chapter 1 which is very good given the quality of the CGs. I suppose my feedback last chapter about the large download size was resolved, especially with the 'character outlines are sharper' comment. It's still downloading though. Random tech tip: if you're using git, turtoise git does allow you to generate a zip containing all the files that have changed between two commits . It's kind of hidden in the UI, you compare revisions, select files changed, right click, and export if I recall correctly. I don't know off the top of my head how one would do that command line though, stack overflow's answers seem scary to try. Been ages since I've used Turtoisegit since transitioning to Linux. Regardles of this tip, from trying to distribute patches myself as a modder, I ran into endless headaches (read: technical support since applying patches is too hard for the kids who grew up with nothing but steam), so the entire thing as a zip is probably better. I'm wondering given vladek's feedback about the 15 minutes naked girls on screen and the fanservice a few things, are there plans for this scene to change for Steam? If it really is 15 minutes that seems like a considerable amount of work to make changes for Steam. Curious I suppose. Other feedback: Thank you for a Linux version of the beta. _____ Nemjen have you tried Visual Studio Code? It's a lightweight bundle of plugins on top of Atom by Microsoft that's free. I think the UI is pretty good for coding. They have plugins for python and might have one for renpy (or some way for you to configure rpy to be interpreted as python probably). If you aren't using an IDE like Pycharm or better editor like VSC I recommend trying one. Makes a big difference in productivity versus notepad++. I need to figure out how to have VSC use similar keybindings to np++ though. Miss my ctrl+D for duplicate line. IntelliJ/Pycharm has it though. _____ So...like...I'm wondering, can I give someone else the center role but go after another girl? Cause I'd like to give the most experienced girl it (cause honestly it seems smarter) or maybe even just have them rotate as centers (some random boy band video I was forced to watch at a family get together did that in their videos). Edit: you went over this topic in the VN. xD Also Nemu's black out....lol ______ I can't tell why but Nemu's head in the drunk scene looks...different (better?) than her normal look? I think it's the angle of the hair maybe, the slight angle thing is supposed to bring out the best of a person. ______ Oh hey, space bar advances the text forward now (?)! Awesome! I don't remember if I complained about this. Might have been seinarakana. Well whatever, it's a great feature.
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Post by limith on Jan 23, 2017 3:26:33 GMT -8
Just been revived from cryo, and I hope I'm not necro-posting... Personally, given my experience of the beta so far, I would be fine if the gameplay is limited to making the executive choices (who gets to be lead, which one to “connect” to). The Writing is fantastic, and I wouldn’t mind the game being a pure visual novel. Though if I had to make a suggestion, it would be to make the day-to-day management of an idol group the gameplay. Just like what Limith said, you have to figure out salaries, conduct advertising activities to boost the group’s image, etcetera, etcetera. I don't think that there should be too much in the ways of stats, perhaps just available funds, and the stamina/temperament of each character. An example of management in action: Using “that place” for photo shoots was acceptable early on for the group, due to the limited resources of the agency. Later on though, the girls expect to have their shoots done at more respectable locales by bigger name magazines, rather than second-rate tabloids and border-nudie mags. Continued use of “that place” will save yen, allowing for better salaries for the girls, better concert venues, and personal gain for the producer. However, some of the girls might get infuriated knowing that their image is now almost permanently associated with “that place”, perhaps threatening to quit unless you find a different locale. Some girls might not be as annoyed though, believing that “bad press is better than no press” and may push for even more risqué shoots/actions. Just an idea… Totally on the mark with what I was suggesting. I forgot to mentioned earlier about keeping it light. It wouldn't even really be that much different than how normal VNs play out. If anyone's played ChoiceOfGames text novels it could be something simple like that (although maybe you guys would want a better UI).
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Post by limith on Jan 20, 2017 18:59:07 GMT -8
On the minigame I think Osu! is honestly really good for what it does and the programming effort required to make a minigame that is as good as Osu well probably won't be worth it. I don't think you could integrate a C# game into renpy.
With regards to why I like Sunrider, Kyon is on the mark. However I know LiS is catering to a different demographic with this game so obviously something as detailed as Sunrider won't work.
In terms of what I enjoyed about the beta so far is the writing that reminds me of Konosuba. Good amount of effort by the writers this time. I'm not sure if this is evident enough in promotional material or whether the target audience would care.
As for gameplay content, I wouldn't mind stat raising minigame, but as mentioned there are many of these games already in existence. Quite a few flash games from childhood come to mind. I also didn't play Academy so I'm not sure with regards to my feedback in relation to that game.
One possibility would be perhaps budget balancing and choosing which days/venues to perform? It's implied in part 1 that some of the characters have money problems and the agency does as well. So it'd be something like a sim game, except instead of raising character stats it would be the agency itself. Whether your agency is successful, how you divide up the salary, and which tasks you choose could also impact scenes. Eg if you are desperate you could send them to do a risque photo shoot and trigger a scene where some of the team threaten to quit. Or if you manage things better you can cover the pay for some of the idols so they don't need to work at night. If you don't cover their salary and do too many shows then some of the girls may get burned out. You can hire a dance instructor, show coordinator, assistant, etc. So once you hire the dance instructor the girls would stop commenting about the DVDs.
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Post by limith on Jul 4, 2016 3:04:07 GMT -8
Eh well, in terms of adding more mid-content, all of the major events of Libday still have to occur or else it won't connect with the fourth game, so it would just extend the parts that people didn't like. There's not much which can be added which people would have wanted anyways, so I think just giving the story people wanted in the form of REturn was the best option. The general story treatments of First Arrival, Mask of Arcadius, and Liberation Day were written three years ago. You guys probably don't know what the VN market was like back then, but Sekai Project barely even existed, and Manga Gamer was just barely starting to turn a profit back in 2013. I think the market shifted too radically during the three years that it took to make the game. In today's market, you either release with AAA-tier Akibahara eroge style art and a lot of fan service or else your game will probably not sell. I would say the production of Mask of Arcadius was pretty much a massive clusterfuck where most of the team was days away from starving to death, and Liberation Day was us pretty much trying to strap on as many fancy features as possible to a story which was envisioned years ago. I think if Mask of Arcadius was a paid product, the market reception would have been as worse as Liberation Day. MoA essentially has everything people hated about Liberation Day - the story length is a bit shorter than LibDay V2 (29k words MoA vs. 31k words LD) - no romance routes with waifus - and it ends on a massive cliff hanger which resolves nothing. Nobody just notices because it's free and it's bundled with First Arrival. (which has its own problems, but hey that's free too.) Ultimately, LibDay was written with a vastly different market in mind. Academy and REturn were written with today's market in mind. And I bet that's what makes the difference. Some heads at Sekai Project and myself were pretty concerned the product was going to land in a hostile market so we were not particularly surprised on release day. We were under quite a bit of pressure from the market to release another high fan service choose your waifu game like Sunrider Academy which sold incredibly well, but ultimately I chose to stick with what was originally planned for the first three games rather than redirecting the series. In the end though, I still liked working on Liberation Day the most out of all the games I've worked on, and I think most of our fans have just become all the more dedicated to supporting Love in Space. We will always continue to produce games in our own particular style, so I don't particularly care if some people disagree with what we're doing. Throughout Love in Space's almost decade long history, its staff members are received almost every kind of insult. But for every insult, we gain ten supporters and our popularity has only steadily grown with each year, so I think we're doing something right. The market has definitely changed from what it used to be. MoA was the first anime game I remember seeing on Steam. Now I see so many that I want to add it to my list of "do not recommend to me" tags. Game development is hard, and I know the industry doesn't pay well. I commend everyone for making it so far and for providing MoA/FA for free and it's really enlightening to read about the development process in order to get a better understanding of the priorities and demands that ultimately led to where LD is today. On the topic of what would the market pay for. That's an interesting question. I'm going to start off by saying I'm probably not your typical market audience, so YMMV. Kamidori and Muv-Luv Alternative are two eroge games I enjoyed and neither of them for AAA-tier art or romancing with waifus. Kamidori had far better gameplay, crafting, and combat mechanics than Fire Emblem at the time (pre-Awakening era). It had good art, and plenty of fanservice scenes but those weren't the main reasons why I played the game for 160+ hours. Muv-Luv Alternative on the other hand is a very, very, long LN with good story that with basically one eroge scene that probably didn't even need to be in the VN. Gameplay is one aspect that I feel Sunrider differentiates itself from other VN, because it has one. Sunrider's tactical gameplay is the most challenging TRPG I've played because performing poorly means you can't continue down the line (unless you lower the difficulty). This segment of the English market doesn't get much competition afaik (Sakura Dungeon being the only thing that comes to mind and the impression I got from reviews were mixed on gameplay so it kind of defeats the purpose?). Imho, having passable art, but great gameplay, story, and replayability leads to good reviews for an indie game (maybe not sales as you said, I don't really have industry knowledge of sales figures and there are always games with good reviews but poor sales). I never heard of a game with all three getting bad reviews because of art. Most games I can think of that get 2 of the three also get good reviews. On the other hand, I know gameplay is holding the game back development wise due to the engine, so that may not be a direction economically feasible to invest in. Similarly because the art in LD is better than in MoA, lowering the bar for art in the 4th game will probably result in negative reviews (unfortunately in my opinion as I'd rather see improvements to story and replay ability). As for story, MoA felt longer for me than LD despite, as you say, having less text. I think the reason why it felt longer was due to it being the start of an arc. It wasn't clear which choices would have what outcome and thus it gave a feel of more possibilities. Furthermore there were much more short scenes on the Sunrider between the crew with (semi) interactive dialogue. Sunrider as a series has many promising story aspects and like others have mentioned, it was disappointing to have the story of the series suffer in LD. More character development would have been appreciated, which, incidentally in the next game, can be tied to replayability. As much as I enjoyed REturn, the core plot points were quite similar (very well written according to the Choose Your Own Adventure writing guidelines to branch out and then back in). You can add a few "route only" unique scenes/levels (not just endings) in the next game to make each route more unique (doesn't have to be romancing either!) and encourage replayability. Or you can go the route Kamidori did with 3 different storylines (PACT, Alliance, Neutral, or something like that) and I'd be really happy. That'd be way over my expectations, and probably out of your budget. On the topic of fanservice. Honestly, it wouldn't really matter if there were more or less. It actually felt a little weird in LD. You get the really early bath scene that came out of nowhere, and then pretty much not much until the end (in the censored version idk maybe there is more in the non censored version), so it wasn't clear if the game was trying to be fanservice heavy or not. Despite all the uproar in the West over fanservice getting removed from Fire Emblem Fates, it still sold well. Lastly, I hope LiS makes a sequel to Sunrider some day that's better than the predecessors. _________ Incidentally on the topic of the engine, I don't know the economics of it, but I would definitely consider changing the engine if you plan to have more than 1 more game. As much as I like python, ren'py is really not up to the task.
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Post by limith on Jul 3, 2016 12:38:00 GMT -8
So I followed the installation instructions (I think) and I get this error. There's supposed to be a MoA folder under sunrider liberation day/game right?
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
While running game code: File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 938, in script pause 0.5 File "renpy/common/000statements.rpy", line 361, in execute_pause renpy.with_statement(Pause(delay)) IOError: Couldn't find file 'MoA/MoA/MoA/sound/battle.wav'.
-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
Full traceback: File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 938, in script pause 0.5 File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\ast.py", line 1696, in execute self.call("execute") File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\ast.py", line 1714, in call return renpy.statements.call(method, parsed, *args, **kwargs) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\statements.py", line 144, in call return method(parsed, *args, **kwargs) File "renpy/common/000statements.rpy", line 361, in execute_pause renpy.with_statement(Pause(delay)) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\exports.py", line 1356, in with_statement return renpy.game.interface.do_with(trans, paired, clear=clear) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 1989, in do_with clear=clear) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 2424, in interact repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, **kwargs) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 2715, in interact_core renpy.audio.audio.interact() File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\audio\audio.py", line 790, in interact periodic() File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\audio\audio.py", line 724, in periodic c.periodic() File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\audio\audio.py", line 340, in periodic topf = load(self.file_prefix + topq.filename + self.file_suffix) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\audio\audio.py", line 74, in load rv = renpy.loader.load(fn) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\loader.py", line 533, in load raise IOError("Couldn't find file '%s'." % name) IOError: Couldn't find file 'MoA/MoA/MoA/sound/battle.wav'.
Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 Ren'Py 6.99.8.959 Release 3.01
Also got this error which wasn't ignorable or reloadable (Tydaria battle). I'm not sure if I was supposed to get this battle so early, this showed up before Ongress and the gravity guns are in the battle despite remembering this was part of LD? Similar issue with side mission Versta. Also I cannot go to Ongress despite the event showing up....Edit: I got a hackfix by putting jump greyonboard to after mission 3 (Versta). For some reason the flow of logic jumped to LD/mission3 from mid MoA.
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
While running game code: File "game/script.rpy", line 3801, in script ava "Warp successful, captain. We have joined the Alliance fleet and are prepared to engage the PACT forces." Exception: Switch could not choose a displayable.
-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
Full traceback: File "game/script.rpy", line 3801, in script ava "Warp successful, captain. We have joined the Alliance fleet and are prepared to engage the PACT forces." File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\ast.py", line 603, in execute renpy.exports.say(who, what, interact=self.interact) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\exports.py", line 1121, in say who(what, interact=interact) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\character.py", line 828, in __call__ self.do_display(who, what, cb_args=self.cb_args, **display_args) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\character.py", line 690, in do_display **display_args) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\character.py", line 493, in display_say rv = renpy.ui.interact(mouse='say', type=type, roll_forward=roll_forward) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\ui.py", line 277, in interact rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 2424, in interact repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, **kwargs) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 2765, in interact_core self.draw_screen(root_widget, fullscreen_video, (not fullscreen_video) or video_frame_drawn) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\core.py", line 1849, in draw_screen renpy.config.screen_height, File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 394, in renpy.display.render.render_screen (gen\renpy.display.render.c:6190) rv = render(root, width, height, 0, 0) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 650, in render surf = render(child, width, height, cst, cat) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 650, in render surf = render(child, width, height, cst, cat) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 650, in render surf = render(child, width, height, cst, cat) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "renpy/display/accelerator.pyx", line 104, in renpy.display.accelerator.transform_render (gen\renpy.display.accelerator.c:1905) cr = render(child, widtho, heighto, st - self.child_st_base, at) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 650, in render surf = render(child, width, height, cst, cat) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 282, in render surf = render(self.child, width, height, st, at) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 282, in render surf = render(self.child, width, height, st, at) File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 103, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:3104) cpdef render(d, object widtho, object heighto, double st, double at): File "renpy/display/render.pyx", line 185, in renpy.display.render.render (gen\renpy.display.render.c:2721) rv = d.render(widtho, heighto, st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 1156, in render self.update(st, at) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 1143, in update child, redraw = self.function(st, at, *self.args, **self.kwargs) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 1206, in condition_switch_show return condition_switch_pick(switch), None File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\display\layout.py", line 1203, in condition_switch_pick raise Exception("Switch could not choose a displayable.") Exception: Switch could not choose a displayable.
Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 Ren'Py 6.99.8.959 Release 3.01
Other bug reports: Liquid Ongression Fuel re-locked itself after I purchased it for the first time (needed to buy it again). Noticed this after mission 17. Was available to purchase prior to mission 15.
Edit: another bug report when fighting the Legion. I've commented out the Legion Vanguard Cannon firing logic to get past this point as I don't have any units in the Legion's firing path anyway, but still a bug. Not sure where MHL is defined in the old game, couldn't find it in the ai.rpy file.
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
While running game code: File "game/script.rpy", line 3813, in script call call battlewarning_label from _call_battlewarning_label_3 File "game/script.rpy", line 3496, in script call call battlewarning_label from _call_battlewarning_label_1 File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 22551, in script $BM.battle() #continue the battle File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 22551, in <module> $BM.battle() #continue the battle File "game/classes.rpy", line 1260, in battle self.dispatch_handler(self.result)() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1170, in battle_end_turn self.end_player_turn() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1332, in end_player_turn self.enemy_AI() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1594, in enemy_AI ship.AI() File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 24736, in LegionAI for hex in MHL: NameError: global name 'MHL' is not defined
-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
Full traceback: File "game/script.rpy", line 3813, in script call call battlewarning_label from _call_battlewarning_label_3 File "game/script.rpy", line 3496, in script call call battlewarning_label from _call_battlewarning_label_1 File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 22551, in script $BM.battle() #continue the battle File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\ast.py", line 805, in execute renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store) File "G:\Programs\Steam\steamapps\common\Sunrider Liberation Day\renpy\python.py", line 1461, in py_exec_bytecode exec bytecode in globals, locals File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 22551, in <module> $BM.battle() #continue the battle File "game/classes.rpy", line 1260, in battle self.dispatch_handler(self.result)() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1170, in battle_end_turn self.end_player_turn() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1332, in end_player_turn self.enemy_AI() File "game/classes.rpy", line 1594, in enemy_AI ship.AI() File "game/MoA/MoA in LD.rpy", line 24736, in LegionAI for hex in MHL: NameError: global name 'MHL' is not defined
Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1 Ren'Py 6.99.8.959 Release 3.01
Edit: I finished the nebula mission in LD and now there's no place to go in the starmap nor any events on the ship...I think it's related to the bug where in MoA storyline I was teleported forward to LD missions.
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