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Post by Drath on Feb 21, 2016 22:57:44 GMT -8
In beta10, Nightmares had 20 armor. Now in beta12, Nightmares have 30 armor.
Checked the stats in library.rpy and there are no changes in stats whatsoever between beta10 till beta12. However the Nightmare is coded as self.base_armor = 20 and self.armor =30, whereas other units either have both values being the same or a line that equalizes them (self.armor = self.base_armor).
So it seems like the issue here is beta12 uses self.armor (instead of self.base_armor in beta10).
Please clarify which is the intended version. Nightmares with 30 armor take 120 damage reduction from Phoenix melee (x2 for each blade and x2 again as if I'm not mistaken armor counts twice against melee (similar to kinetics)), so that's a pretty significant drop. Coupled with Phoenix EN getting a nerf in beta 11, they are no longer as potent a tool against Nightmares as before. Not saying that's necessarily bad though as I don't mind some tweaks to make things tougher... we did get Arcadius no flak after all.
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Post by vaendryl on Feb 21, 2016 23:21:56 GMT -8
should be mostly cosmetic as the instant current armor is recalculated (and it is often) this should get adjusted back based on base_armor and hp level. still... I should probably change the library description. I think Sam meant for it to be 30 though. You're right about armor counting double against melee. wow, I totally forgot. in fact, I think it shouldn't. I would've said it didn't if somebody asked me 5 minutes ago. Samu-kun , should it be 30 or 20? should armor count double against melee? I don't remember if that was ever intentional or not. |
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Post by Drath on Feb 21, 2016 23:35:14 GMT -8
Thanks for the speedy reply!  On armor counting double against melee: The only significant case where this is noticeable is the Nightmare. Other ryders have too little armor that the +/- 5% damage variation will make it hard to detect the difference, which is why counting once or double matters little. However now with Nightmare pumped to 30 armor, I think it's time to revisit the issue. From a player's point of view, your 2 big sources of damage on Nightmares are Phoenix melee and an Awakened Seraphim's kinetics (notwithstanding Vanguard Cannon and MIRV torpedoes, which use up resources), with lasers being clean up. With 30 armor, you are hitting Phoenix melee significantly and will make Seraphim double kinetics more important. As mentioned above that is NOT to say it's bad. But any significant changes should be mentioned in patch notes as Nightmare armor has always been 20 since MoA times and is well documented in the wiki. Incomplete documentation makes it difficult for the player to adjust his plans/playstyle. On lower difficulties this is probably a non-issue, but IMHO it does make a difference at higher difficulties. |
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Post by Samu-kun on Feb 22, 2016 0:30:22 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be 20 armor and the 30's just a typo.
...I vaguely remember deciding during FA that armor should not double for melee...
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Post by Drath on Feb 22, 2016 3:49:36 GMT -8
should be mostly cosmetic as the instant current armor is recalculated (and it is often) this should get adjusted back based on base_armor and hp level. still... I should probably change the library description. I think Sam meant for it to be 30 though. Ooh that's right. The moment I pulled one forward and got it countered, every Nightmare had their armor switched back to 20. The one countered had 19 of course. Didn't realize this, saw 30 when they first appeared and immediately came here. Sorry for the trouble. Well uhm in that case, there really isn't any need to adjust the melee so that armor only counts once against it. I don't really fancy being the tester that made things easier. Bad rep  |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 22, 2016 4:50:11 GMT -8
should be mostly cosmetic as the instant current armor is recalculated (and it is often) this should get adjusted back based on base_armor and hp level. still... I should probably change the library description. I think Sam meant for it to be 30 though. I don't really fancy being the tester that made things easier. Bad rep To think I looked up to you as a representation of players who are able to play and conquer even the top difficulties and here I find you trying to numb the final build's difficulty experience.  Expectation shattered. |
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Post by Histidine on Feb 22, 2016 5:04:21 GMT -8
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 22, 2016 5:22:47 GMT -8
I thought this was patched in 12.3 but the newest builds seem to have unravelled the fix. You could have very well just saved the launch of Liberation Day! |
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