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Post by Marx-93 on Feb 25, 2016 5:43:01 GMT -8
So, I've encountered with a relatively strange phenomenon. Some of you may remember that I talked about finishing the 4th mission the same turn the falcon appears? Well, I continued that save for a while (including doing some upgrades and refilling my rockets), but soon my optimizing nature forced me to redo the battle from a save I had in a slightly less wasteful way (basically, used 2 rockets instead of 3, and took one turn more, but drawfire meant the damage I took was almost 0). The problem is that, when I went to the store later, instead of that single rocket I saved, it said I had all three of them. And without spending a buck.
So yeah, I knew about trying to incentive rockets a bit more, but I think automatically refilling them is a tad much
(also, while I haven't tested it, I think the fifth mission can also be done in one turn, and I think you don't even need rockets! I hope the reinforcements are a bit tougher.)
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Post by Drath on Feb 25, 2016 6:46:07 GMT -8
Tried to reproduce this but couldn't. I only had 2 rockets though. If I used 1 in battle I would have 1 left and if I used both then I would need to buy 2. Did you experience this only after getting the expanded torpedo storage? On mission 5: On SW (66% normal dmg) I think it would be rather tough to down everything in turn 1, without relying on MIRVs or Summon Alliance Battleship. I had a window of opportunity to finish the fight in turn 2 though as reinforcements on that turn are pretty light. I elected to delay to farm turn 3 reinforcements.
These days, fast mission completion really isn't worth what it was in old days where your CP depended on it. With the CP cap, these days I don't bother going for fast completion as on a few missions I have trouble spending all my CP. Essentially the CP cap makes defensive play equally viable.
Also I think it's ok to have a few relatively light battles. I doubt most players playing on Captain will be able to finish mission 5 in 1 turn, though. We've been playing since early betas so I'm not exaggerating when I say your skill is well in excess of that needed to complete Captain. In other words, if Histie or yourself says Captain isn't hard, that should totally be the case... I wouldn't expect any less from the caretakers of our wiki.
Finally, by the time you reach mission 5, some players may not have Ryuvian Falcons, some may not have MIRV and some may not even have had extra Intel (about 11k) from mission 3 if they didn't save the diplomats previously. There needs to be some slack at least on Captain difficulty to cater to a less optimal fleet setup.
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Post by Marx-93 on Feb 25, 2016 8:33:34 GMT -8
Yes, it only happened to me after upgrading the torpedo storage. Oh, yes, absolutely on everything you say about mission 5. In SW it should be close to impossible to clear everything in one turn; in captain is already very hard with the Summon battleship order (in fact, I think you may end without it being technically possible, though only because the mooks). Using some gravity and the vanguard may have better results, but it would be too much.
An yes, if mission 3 is skippable (I admit I thought another excuse would have been used if you didn't save the diplomats to do the mission) then it's pretty balanced as it is.
The short turn thing is juts something I've done since the old betas, so i still think about it a little, even if it's not meaningful now.
It's just though that after mission 2 gave me a very hard time, I've been cruising through the rest fairly easily. Not that I mind though, if everything would have been as hard as mission 2 was, I would have doubted of my capacity to end the game on hard, haha.
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Post by Drath on Feb 25, 2016 10:31:05 GMT -8
Tried again with Expanded Torpedo Storage on. Seems ok to me. Spent 2 and had 1 left when I went back to store. Spent 1 and had 2 left when I went back to store. Not too sure what's causing it. I'll leave it to you and Vaen. Sorry.
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 25, 2016 10:44:51 GMT -8
It's interesting this is mentioned as I had a similar experience during beta 12.2 but was never able to recreate it purposely.
I'll have another go when I get home, see if I can identify a trigger.Edit: I concede, got no idea about this one.  |
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Post by Marx-93 on Feb 25, 2016 12:50:03 GMT -8
I think it may be related to my previous run, somehow mixing the saves in a strange way, as it happened juts after I replenished my rockets in my first save (then I saw my money, and thought "oh well, I can add 300$ to that" and redid the battle and found my rockets magically replenished).
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Post by vaendryl on Feb 25, 2016 15:12:42 GMT -8
tried messing around a little but wasn't able to replicate this either.
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 27, 2016 6:00:06 GMT -8
I think I might have found the trigger of this:
If you finish a scenario with any number of used torpedoes then go to the 'store' and take note of the number you have (eg. 1/2, 0/2, 2/3, 1/3, 0/3) then navigate to 'upgrade' and purchase anything using intel - upon returning to the store it will fully re stock your missing torpedoes. This occurs both with and without upgrades to the 'torpedo'.
While I have noted it in this particular way the trigger seems to be purchasing an upgrade as is shown if you purchase one and then proceed to move onto the next scenario without referring to the store, after placement the Sunrider will have 2/2 or 3/3 torpedoes.
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Post by Drath on Feb 27, 2016 7:22:45 GMT -8
While I have noted it in this particular way the trigger seems to be purchasing an upgrade as is shown if you purchase one and then proceed to move onto the next scenario without referring to the store, after placement the Sunrider will have 2/2 or 3/3 torpedoes. Tested and confirmed! You're a genius, Magpie! A genius! And that folks is the difference between someone who tests software for organizations and the rest of us, the common rabble. /Drath delivers a respectful salute!! xD |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 27, 2016 7:34:16 GMT -8
While I have noted it in this particular way the trigger seems to be purchasing an upgrade as is shown if you purchase one and then proceed to move onto the next scenario without referring to the store, after placement the Sunrider will have 2/2 or 3/3 torpedoes. Tested and confirmed! You're a genius, Magpie! A genius! And that folks is the difference between someone who tests software for organizations and the rest of us, the common rabble. /Drath delivers a respectful salute!! xD This bug was personal as it was driving me insane. I am glad it is now on the table, thanks for original flag Marx-93 - this could have easily slipped into the final build. |
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Post by Drath on Feb 27, 2016 7:55:23 GMT -8
At first I thought the problem in the code was in upgrade.rpy. Checked and found nothing wrong. Next I checked functions.rpy which processes upgrades via: 1)process_upgrade 2)reverse_upgrade Found both called max_stats() towards the end and max_stats() has a line: ship.rockets = ship.max_rockets. So yea that's the line that refills the rockets. I cut it out, retested and the rockets are no longer refilled on upgrading stuff in Research. However I'm hesitating to put it out as a proper fix as I'm not sure if max_stats() is also referenced by other functions which actually do need rockets to be refilled. Maybe have process_upgrade (2 max_stats calls) and reverse_upgrade (1 max_stats call) refer to a new function that doesn't refill rockets and leave the original max_stats() intact. P/S - And yes this one would have been a serious lapse if it had hit public release. The new players would probably unknowingly and happily accept the free rockets lol. That's why we need playtesters of different playstyles (ie rocket users like Marx) and experienced testers like yourself around. Glad you made it personal. Magpie 1, Bugs 0  |
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Post by Marx-93 on Feb 27, 2016 11:40:02 GMT -8
Wow, thanks for the work, Nemjen ! (and to you Drath for making it easier for vaen later!) It seriously seems like a slippery bug! And the MIRVs are already good enough to add automatic replenishment. Well, good to find that I am not crazy and somehow used imaginary rockets... |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 27, 2016 11:52:24 GMT -8
Well, good to find that I am not crazy and somehow used imaginary rockets... You manage to swipe them from the testers that were not using them, the upgrade window is actually a multi dimensional portal. experienced testers like yourself around After my hiccup earlier with counting the number of buffs active I don't deserve to be called that.  |
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Post by Drath on Feb 27, 2016 12:27:06 GMT -8
Nemjen Lol no worries. Was wondering about that earlier too xD Everyone makes errors every now and then. I also just corrected a typo I made, back in the mitigation thread. Hence the need for a second pair of eyes in QA and testing 
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 28, 2016 23:00:35 GMT -8
The irony of testing for errors but at the end of the day making the errors yourselves. |
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Post by vaendryl on Feb 29, 2016 7:08:09 GMT -8
you're all awesome thanks guys! |
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