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Post by Blackhead on Feb 9, 2016 4:07:12 GMT -8
I think the game isn't as much about the romance as people assume. it's surely more like mass effect or MLA than, say, clannad. Oha, Vaendryl. Already trying to lower some expectations I see. Sneaky, sneaky. Feeling the pressure?  Lukily, waifus never really have been Sunrider's selling point for me personally, but I can see where people are coming from. Like many, I'm also not a big Chigara fan. Even if you try to ignore her, and focus on gameplay/story for the most part, she will always do her best to assure that you don't forget about her, when she sweet talks and constantly hangs around your neck. Yep, lolis and pure dere types are mildly annoying imo, so no kids and bakery if I've got even the slightest thing to say about it. I don't expect or demand any other routes, but if you really have Chigara as the only potential love interest for Shields, I just want a choice at the end of the game to at least dump down Chigara. Add one scene after the epilogue where Kayto kicks a sick one-liner. That would be satisfying enough to make up for everything.  objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8160718 |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 9, 2016 4:34:13 GMT -8
Bonus points for a Phoenix Wright objection drop. :3
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Post by Histidine on Feb 9, 2016 5:07:27 GMT -8
Given the time/budget constraints we've seen thus far (though with the big Japanese push now, maybe they no longer apply)? I expect current "forced Chigara route" to be the only one at release. Though the others could be added in later patches. ...or as paid DLC. US$3 for every non-Chigara waifu on the Sunrider, $5 for Maray, $10 for Unknown Pilot-Kun.  Out of curiosity why do you feel like it's inappropriate to date any of them? At this point in development I would say that they are presented more as love interests (we had Sunrider Academy for dating needs) with the exception of Chigara who is woven into the plot of Liberation Day (or at least what we have seen). Ps. Welcome to the forum. Because your their commanding officer. You literally order them around. It's not the most healthy relationship. It's frowned on IRL for very good reasons, but the trope is so common in anime (and for that matter, even Mass Effect has it  ) that I can't really act surprised about the mandatory romance in Sunrider. |
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Post by Nemjen on Feb 9, 2016 5:24:58 GMT -8
...or as paid DLC. US$3 for every non-Chigara waifu on the Sunrider, $5 for Maray, $10 for Unknown Pilot-Kun. Excellent we can slip the romancable space whales in here under the $3 margin, I'm safe from that $60k starting bid. Personally I'm not a fan of the multiple DLC model in VNs but rather larger content injection ones (Go! Go! Nippon! ~My First Trip to Japan~ 2015 comes to mind). Still it always remains an option. |
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Post by redemyr on Feb 9, 2016 7:16:48 GMT -8
I think the game isn't as much about the romance as people assume. it's surely more like mass effect or MLA than, say, clannad. Well, mass effect had diff options (Miranda ftw)... and mla had a "forced" route, which as I said, it's one of the very few parts I didn't like... Also, the game, at least from what I've seen, has a romance included: with Chicara, with jealously from Asaga and regisnation/acceptance from Ava... So it does have a relationship, what I'd like to know is if there's a player choice involved in it, which imo is the best way to have most of your players happy (don't like this one, choose another or just replay the game picking a different one for more replayability) Forcing people on a path they might not enjoy will make them, well, not enjoy it... Just my two cents though... I love the music and the strategy part of the game, just would like to love the VN part as well... |
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Post by nomotog on Feb 9, 2016 7:36:09 GMT -8
The one romance I want to see is Kryska and Icari. I ship them.
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Post by vaendryl on Feb 9, 2016 8:09:15 GMT -8
The one romance I want to see is Kryska and Icari. I ship them. and they make quite the effective combo, side by side on the battlefield. kryska draws aggro, while icari provides flak cover  |
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Post by paulrico on Feb 10, 2016 12:42:45 GMT -8
I think the reason why I'm quite miffed about this whole issue is that in Mask of Arcadius, the game allowed the player to make choices in the story that lead to various consequences and the game allowed to player to customize each individual mech to suit one's play-style. I think some players, I being one of them, felt that since there was no choice as to who Shields was romantically involved with they assumed that such an addition to the game would be available in the next part of the game. Yet it seems that, at least what the trailer has been implying, is that who Shields is romantically involved with is out of the player's control. I know this is not the main focus of the game, but if I could just use the Mass Effect comparison for an example as to why it's upsetting: Shepard is able to make choices throughout the the games that could effect the lives of his crew and the galaxy and the romance subplots are always tangential to the main story, but each game allows Shepard to decide who he/she wishes to be with, yet this ultimately does not effect the end of each of the games and it is optional. Also, what the trailer implies is that Chigara is the only romantic option that the player will have and such a choice is not optional. If that is the case, I would rather there be no romantic subplot at all, since the player has no choice on what I perceive to be such a tangential issue.
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Post by Nagashofchaos on Feb 10, 2016 17:59:24 GMT -8
Meh, might as well give my thoughts. Currently the romantic story (Chigara) reminds me a lot of a visual novel "Princess Waltz". I will be spoiling it's romance bellow, as well as giving a hypothesis-ish of what's gonna happen. Alright, in Princess Waltz there is a main heroine who you can't escape from romancing. This takes up the first half of the game. The 2nd half you end up with getting it on with one of the many others. The reason for this is the main heroine is possessed by the main bad, and rofls to his/her victory. You ally one of the main heroine's "rivals?" and end up slightly falling for her. That's all I need to spoil as going by this we can guess something bad is gonna happen to Chigara. Death?, imprisonment?, teleport away through time and space?, maybe but due to the mechanics already in place it is nearly guaranteed something will occur that will ultimately give you a choice (though said choice will most likely be semi-automatic based on actions previously taken; unless you did a harem strategy). Once again this is my opinion on things. Samu might have entirely blind sided, but I would actually bet some money (not too much) on this in general concept. So please calm done and enjoy where ever this story is gonna take us (because Samu might be looking for a 100 episode visual novel ) For those not wishing a (possible) spoiler: romances will most likely occur later on, don't worry about it. Keep calm and hug your waifu. PS: first time using spoiler thingy. |
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Post by wanderinggamer on Feb 12, 2016 14:51:27 GMT -8
After playing the Beta 12 I think it would be very hard to make several routes without changing the main story too much. And to create 4 routes with different endings would make it very hard to pick up the story afterwards. And with Chigara being in the spotlight in the final battle of Cera and how it ended at the ceremony I can't imagine to alter this for 3 other crew members like Ava or Asaga. And even if you do it if you want to make a sequel you would have to make as many different beginnings as this one has endings or you would have to find a way to make 4 endings that share the most important parts. But since Kaytos choice is so important for the story I can't see how that would work.
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Post by redemyr on Feb 13, 2016 14:18:09 GMT -8
By the time The Witcher 3 was released, there was a huge flame war? going on on the forums (I think the main thread reached about 1.000 pages before it was closed by the mods) because many people thought (myself included) that out of the 2 LIs for Geralt (the nominal Witcher), one kinda got the short straw in screen time and other things.
Granted you can't compare the situation as that game has a huge following, both from previous games and the books which the game was based upon. Also you could choose between the two, it just seemed that the game was made with one in mind. And lastly, both LIs were awesome in their own way, unlike here where imho Chirara is very, to put it delicatelly, unappealing.
Still, even if it happens in a smaller scale, I wouldn't like for the forums to be filled by posts made by dissapointed fans of the other girls.
I haven't played the last beta yet (I'm waiting for the full game now) so I'm just gonna trust that the devs will not dissapoint us in this matter.
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Post by cross on Feb 16, 2016 15:22:05 GMT -8
I am personally wearing my tin foil hat right now, and saying that the devs are hiding the other routes from us. They send the betas out with one route so that people can play and test most all the missions, yet not have all the story spoiled. While the beta only focuses on the Chigara route, the master file contains routes for all the characters and will see the light of day on launch. I will hope to see the route with the blue haired one. Hopefully the final game also allows us to make more choices than are currently in. So far, compared to the other two games we seem to have had almost no choices, other than to save or kill Cosette, and to keep or get rid of her rider if we did. Really hoping we will be able to have more choices that effect the relation points and more in the final game, but we will wait and see for that. I'm assumin this is the case as well. It wouldn't make sense to only have a Chigara story, especially after Ava was considered the most popular character. Also, after Sunrider Academy would seem like a huge tease, having the main series be a linear game where your forced into one girl's route Oh hell I do hope so...but at this moment I fail to believe, because I saw the explosion of Bianca After teh shocking Picture of pounded Chigara, well I see her as a little Sister, I was disgusted and before that very sad and angry that I cant choose my LI, especially after I didn't let Eva go at the End of MoA...but in Lib Day she is either angry I saved her or glad she made it and thats it....just obsolet, like it doesn't matter at all what you did in Moa and before. Sure in one side Mission the rescued are Mention... woohooo cuut the crapp who intrests this. I wana see effect from the talks I made especially from the beach etc. I will hope in the final release there is the possibility to choose...if not the don't have to send me the Steam key and my registration on patreon was a failure. Update, after I finished the Beta, the story is really short. So here what I think about other Lovestorylines: Different lovelines are totaly likely to be, at least with Ava, Asaga and Sola. Yes Kayto must be with Chigara for the plot, but he also could let go of her in the end it doesn't matter, because Chigara always will be the hero who gets the Medall and than awakens to fullfill her mission, lovers otr not.
About the hooking up with or not with Chigara, as long as she loves him and is near him everything should be fine, even if she is only seen by him as th elittle sister, while humping all over Ava or Sola.
Due to the fact that LibDay has only a few interaction csense it wouldn't even be hard to change everyone Sry...I'm just now a bit disapointed and have to use a Vent....because I really do not like Chigara goinig to play Avas route again in Academy...the End sooo moving |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 1, 2016 12:49:41 GMT -8
Not having seen any spoilers for Liberation Day I find myself really hoping that there either IS or will be some kind of waifu choice at some point in the series.
I might be spoiled from Sunrider Academy, but there are so many top tier potential waifus, and Chigara is just a wee bit too sugary for me... more than a wee bit.
It won't really mess with my enjoyment of the story or combat too much either way but quality waifu options are always a force multiplier.
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 1, 2016 13:08:39 GMT -8
I tried to avoid Chigara the best I could. It's not really appropriate to date any of them. Out of curiosity why do you feel like it's inappropriate to date any of them? At this point in development I would say that they are presented more as love interests (we had Sunrider Academy for dating needs) with the exception of Chigara who is woven into the plot of Liberation Day (or at least what we have seen). Ps. Welcome to the forum. It's technically fraternization between a CO and his underlings. It'd be like an Lieutenant having intercourse with a Sergeant who he or she supervises. One could argue coercion. Of course, in a VN/video game, that's usually not covered unless it's implied well enough or brought up directly as a plot point. In romantic games/novels/etc, willingness is usually assumed over coercion. |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 1, 2016 15:12:54 GMT -8
Out of curiosity why do you feel like it's inappropriate to date any of them? At this point in development I would say that they are presented more as love interests (we had Sunrider Academy for dating needs) with the exception of Chigara who is woven into the plot of Liberation Day (or at least what we have seen). Ps. Welcome to the forum. It's technically fraternization between a CO and his underlings. It'd be like an Lieutenant having intercourse with a Sergeant who he or she supervises. One could argue coercion. Of course, in a VN/video game, that's usually not covered unless it's implied well enough or brought up directly as a plot point. In romantic games/novels/etc, willingness is usually assumed over coercion. Technically in the original you can choose to fly the colours of Cera (order) or those of a Pirate (disorder) right at the start, as you can tell by my light hearted attitude to the topic I went with Pirate.  |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 1, 2016 15:33:46 GMT -8
Well, even removing the military bent, it's still a superior and underling relationship.
That said, I prefer the medical officer, who presumably ranks at least as high as I do since she's the only one who can cure my dysentery while we're on the Warp Trail to Oregonus Prime.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 1, 2016 15:41:39 GMT -8
Well, even removing the military bent, it's still a superior and underling relationship. That said, I prefer the medical officer, who presumably ranks at least as high as I do since she's the only one who can cure my dysentery while we're on the Warp Trail to Oregonus Prime. The ENTIRE crew dies. Then everyone in PACT. Then all the Prototypes. Dysentery is a cruel mistress. |
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Post by Lightfollower on Mar 1, 2016 21:53:47 GMT -8
Well, even removing the military bent, it's still a superior and underling relationship. That said, I prefer the medical officer, who presumably ranks at least as high as I do since she's the only one who can cure my dysentery while we're on the Warp Trail to Oregonus Prime. The ENTIRE crew dies. Then everyone in PACT. Then all the Prototypes. Dysentery is a cruel mistress. Especially when someone wanted for medical malpractice and is pretty much a ditz tries helping to cure it. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 1, 2016 23:11:17 GMT -8
The ENTIRE crew dies. Then everyone in PACT. Then all the Prototypes. Dysentery is a cruel mistress. Especially when someone wanted for medical malpractice and is pretty much a ditz tries helping to cure it. Somewhat ironically her cure ends up being amazingly effective. Unfortunately no one trusts it because of who it came from, dooming them all. |
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Post by Somasam on Mar 2, 2016 15:18:22 GMT -8
Well, even removing the military bent, it's still a superior and underling relationship. That said, I prefer the medical officer, who presumably ranks at least as high as I do since she's the only one who can cure my dysentery while we're on the Warp Trail to Oregonus Prime. The ENTIRE crew dies. Then everyone in PACT. Then all the Prototypes. Dysentery is a cruel mistress. I haven't played Sunrider Academy too much, but wasn't there a flu that killed a lot of people during the beta tests? I remember seeing a lot of news about that from Samu a while back. Dysentery is truly the deadliest thing out there in the frontier. Final or otherwise. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 3, 2016 18:20:37 GMT -8
On any difficulty above the second lowest one in Academy, I died pretty consistently to Flu no matter how ripped I got.
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Post by lordgorchnik on Mar 4, 2016 22:49:56 GMT -8
Lord Gorchnik has conquered this game. Onto the next one!
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 5, 2016 1:29:59 GMT -8
Lord Gorchnik has conquered this game. Onto the next one! Hey man, good to have you here |
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 20:58:55 GMT -8
I think the game isn't as much about the romance as people assume. it's surely more like mass effect or MLA than, say, clannad. You DO know that roughly 50% of Mass Effect's selling points WAS multiple romances, right??? Seriously - really, really bad comparison there |
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 21:04:48 GMT -8
I guess for posterity's sake (and since I've commented about it just about everywhere else), I may as well throw two cents into this well, too.
I honestly wouldn't have minded Chigara being the only person we could romance in this specific chapter of Sunrider so long as we had a CHOICE in whether we could romance her or keep it a brother-sister bond. Having each chapter be a chance to romance a specific waifu could have been a selling point - "get Liberation Day for Chigara's route, get (insert title here) for Asaga's route, ect".
You MIGHT get complaints about people not liking having to wait for the game with the route/character they want to come out, but that's arguably better then having everyone be angry/upset/disappointed that they don't even have a choice who they do and don't get to romance, which was LibDay's single biggest complaint. And it's not like LibDay couldn't be altered to have the route be optional - you'd barely even have to change anything. Hell, I'd bet a competent-enough modder could make the alterations himself - which would bring back just about everyone who may have left over it.
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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 10, 2016 21:24:11 GMT -8
Sharr,
G-Senjou no Maou, a well acclaimed Visual Novel uses that style. It works out well for it because there is actually one true route with the true heroine of the series. And it goes through the heroines one by one in terms of their importance to the story, with the least important heroine coming first, then the next important one, then the final true heroine whose route is the main canon story. If you decided to romance anyone aside from the true heroine, then the story derails from its true story and focuses more on the chosen heroine and her personal problem. If you choose none of them, then you'll be forced into the true heroine's story and the main story of the game. Kinda goes like this:
Chapter 1: common
Chapter 2: unimportant heroine --> if you choose her --> go to her story then story end. Otherwise, continue
Chapter 3: more plot/development/some main story advancement
Chapter 4: a bit more important heroine --> if you choose her --> go to her story then end. Otherwise, continue
Chapter 5: even more plot/development/more main story advancement
Chapter 6: true heroine/complete main story/end
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 21:38:00 GMT -8
Sharr, G-Senjou no Maou, a well acclaimed Visual Novel uses that style. It works out well for it because there is actually one true route with the true heroine of the series. And it goes through the heroines one by one in terms of their importance to the story, with the least important heroine coming first, then the next important one, then the final true heroine whose route is the main canon story. If you decided to romance anyone aside from the true heroine, then the story derails from its true story and focuses more on the chosen heroine and her personal problem. If you choose none of them, then you'll be forced into the true heroine's story and the main story of the game. Kinda goes like this: Chapter 1: common Chapter 2: unimportant heroine --> if you choose her --> go to her story then story end. Otherwise, continue Chapter 3: more plot/development/some main story advancement Chapter 4: a bit more important heroine --> if you choose her --> go to her story then end. Otherwise, continue Chapter 5: even more plot/development/more main story advancement Chapter 6: true heroine/complete main story/end .... .... I don't get it. I literally do not get how what you just said figures into what I just said. If that's supposed to be an example about how a forced romance works... it really, really, really falls flat for three main reasons: - 1). You CAN CHOOSE DIFFERENT ROUTES. The option of choice is still there - you can still choose who you want to be with, and it actually is more immersive for having there be such big differences in the fate of the character. - 2). There is a far longer time to develop the romance between the main character and the love interest - if Sunrider was developed like G-Senjou, there would have been practically another game's worth of plot between Kayto confiding in Chigara at MoA and his loving her mid-way LD. - 3). Sunrider's plot, last I remembered, was closer to Mass Effect - where the main story's path is largely the same regardless of which person you end up with. It doesn't/never did really follow G-Senjou's framework. What I'm suggesting isn't to remove the relationship with Chigara - it's to make it optional whether it's romantic or platonic. "Railroad romance" was the only other complaint the game had aside from the ending, and fixing it would hardly take more effort then what was done for the post-ending stuff - hell it would actually take far less. |
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 10, 2016 22:46:51 GMT -8
It's very clear by now how you feel about Kayto hooking up with Chigara, but part of what V2.0 did was make clear this didn't count as a 'girl route' but part of the common route. It has to happen for things to play out the way they did. Its required by the overall plot, which will surely become more obvious as more of the story is revealed. A platonic relationship doesn't cut it. If it was and the results were in fact the same it wouldnt even be a choice anyway, which will have people complain about that instead.
I get that you don't like this part of the story but it's nowhere near as "locked in" as you say. It's quite over by the end if you choose it. In a sense, the player only really gains agency over waifu choice at this point, and yes, I understand you wanted that agency much earlier, but the author chose plot over instant waifu gratification. I think the story is better off that way in the long run, but we can bicker that point till the suns burn out.
Disclaimer: my views do not represent those of Love in Space or anyone else.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 22:58:58 GMT -8
It's very clear by now how you feel about Kayto hooking up with Chigara, but part of what V2.0 did was make clear this didn't count as a 'girl route' but part of the common route. It has to happen for things to play out the way they did. Its required by the overall plot, which will surely become more obvious as more of the story is revealed. A platonic relationship doesn't cut it. If it was and the results were in fact the same it wouldnt even be a choice anyway, which will have people complain about that instead. I get that you don't like this part of the story but it's nowhere near as "locked in" as you say. It's quite over by the end if you choose it. In a sense, the player only really gains agency over waifu choice at this point, and yes, I understand you wanted that agency much earlier, but the author chose plot over instant waifu gratification. I think the story is better off that way in the long run, but we can bicker that point till the suns burn out. Disclaimer: my views do not represent those of Love in Space or anyone else. Okay - RANT/TANGENT incoming. I don't think it's clear at all, since everyone assumes I'm against it and don't like it. Once again, I'M NOT and I DO - what I'm against is there being no choice in the matter. It's been used as an example before, but Mass Effect (the first and second ones at least) showed that a romance didn't have to change the "common route" - that all paths could have the same end and everyone could still approve of it. And again, the issue with your statement is that I haven't seen ANY reason that it "has to happen" like that - how does being able to choose whether Kayto loves Chigara as a sister or a girlfriend change the "Kayto's love for Chigara and trust in her betrayed him" plot at all? And again, I point you to the literal crap-ton of people who said it WOULD have cut it - that this was the single biggest flaw in LD aside from the ending (which is now fixed). To say "If it was and the results were in fact the same it wouldnt even be a choice anyway, which will have people complain about that instead" - just stop and look at that statement you wrote. if that were anywhere near true - if people complain about having something that just leads to the same outcome - then why did they want the galaxy & ship maps back?? Say what you want about me overstepping bounds, but I don't think plot required Kayto to love Chigara as a girlfriend as opposed to a sister/that it couldn't have worked either way - just that a bond of love exists, and the absence of Maray and Chigara filling that gap would have made a platonic relationship "cut it" just as much. Kayto still comes to love her deeply so it still would have the same amount of impact - it's just expressed differently, and, if the reviews are any indication, that distinction (or as Marx put it, "the illusion of choice") matters a lot to your fanbase. If it didn't, they wouldn't have complained about it. Hell, I'm not even asking there be options to romance anyone else at this point (and even endorse a "one romance possibility per game/chapter" plan) - just that you can choose how the Chigara relationship was played out. How the hell is that "instant waifu gratification?" I really think nobody would have complained (or not to the level you're trying to paint it) about Chigara being the only person Kayto expressed love for in LibDay if there'd only been the choice to determine HOW/IN WHAT WAY Kayto loved her - you could have the outcome be the same and they wouldn't be upset because they'd have had agency in how the journey to that point took place. Especially not in conjunction with the endgame extensions you already did. |
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Post by Histidine on Mar 11, 2016 6:30:54 GMT -8
Okay, rather tangential, but this was bothering me: You DO know that roughly 50% [citation needed] of Mass Effect's selling points WAS multiple romances, right??? |
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) that I can't really act surprised about the mandatory romance in Sunrider.
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