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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 8, 2016 3:44:25 GMT -8
InquisitorJeeves, well, I'm thinking of this possibility:
Dunno how to add spoiler tags, but spoilers. (potentially)
Crow did mention that the "Wanderer" was in the same timeline as the one they traveled to (current). This means that there was a possibility that they have been chasing after the wanderer since millenia past, meaning the wanderer could've led them 3,000 years in the past, then 5,000 years in the future, trying to shake them off or something of the sort.
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Post by InquisitorJeeves on Mar 8, 2016 4:00:36 GMT -8
InquisitorJeeves, well, I'm thinking of this possibility: Dunno how to add spoiler tags, but spoilers. (potentially) Crow did mention that the "Wanderer" was in the same timeline as the one they traveled to (current). This means that there was a possibility that they have been chasing after the wanderer since millenia past, meaning the wanderer could've led them 3,000 years in the past, then 5,000 years in the future, trying to shake them off or something of the sort. That makes sense, though I have to wonder just what the wanderer did to piss Crow off enough that he'd chase her through time itself. That's some real dedication towards attempting to catch someone. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 8, 2016 4:06:40 GMT -8
That makes sense, though I have to wonder just what the wanderer did to piss Crow off enough that he'd chase her through time itself. That's some real dedication towards attempting to catch someone. She deleted his porn collection. ALL of it. |
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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 8, 2016 4:09:06 GMT -8
That makes sense, though I have to wonder just what the wanderer did to piss Crow off enough that he'd chase her through time itself. That's some real dedication towards attempting to catch someone. She deleted his porn collection. ALL of it. And had his hidden Space Whale fetish exposed. To his friends. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 8, 2016 4:11:36 GMT -8
She deleted his porn collection. ALL of it. And had his hidden Space Whale fetish exposed. To his friends. He put his civil war for the throne on hold until he could find and gut her... Half way through the last game in the series she publicly posts his entire collection. His fleet splinters making his eventual defeat possible. |
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Post by InquisitorJeeves on Mar 8, 2016 4:18:37 GMT -8
That makes sense, though I have to wonder just what the wanderer did to piss Crow off enough that he'd chase her through time itself. That's some real dedication towards attempting to catch someone. She deleted his porn collection. ALL of it. Truly the most heinous of crimes. I can just picture the conversation that occurred upon Crow discovering his porn missing. Crow:"Prepare the time device! We shall hunt her to the edges of time itself and make her restore it!" Crewman: "But sir, don't you think you're overreacting?" Crow: "What did you say to me!?" Crewman: "It's just porn sir!" Crow: "Don't ever question me or my motives!" *shoots crewman dead* *Turns to another crewman* "You! What is your name?" Crewman 2: "I-It's Richards sir!" Crow: "Richards you are now in charge of the time device! Activate it!" Richards: "But sir-" *Crow glares at him* "Y-Y-Yes sir! Right away sir!" |
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 4:48:20 GMT -8
She deleted his porn collection. ALL of it. Truly the most heinous of crimes. I can just picture the conversation that occurred upon Crow discovering his porn missing. Crow:"Prepare the time device! We shall hunt her to the edges of time itself and make her restore it!" Crewman: "But sir, don't you think you're overreacting?" Crow: "What did you say to me!?" Crewman: "It's just porn sir!" Crow: "Don't ever question me or my motives!" *shoots crewman dead* *Turns to another crewman* "You! What is your name?" Crewman 2: "I-It's Richards sir!" Crow: "Richards you are now in charge of the time device! Activate it!" Richards: "But sir-" *Crow glares at him* "Y-Y-Yes sir! Right away sir!" , this is what I consider to be "lol this is stupidly entertaining and over the top." |
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 6:37:31 GMT -8
We're now 3.5 days post launch, here are the initial impressions from various sites besides Steam: Reactions from Fuwanovel: Choices don't matter, too linear, rushed. Don't like Japanese VA. Reactions from Spacebattles forums: Quotes: "Future look completely hopeless". "You can't write a story and then end a book on a point where everything feels meaningless, because then nobody will want to buy the next book in the series." "wasn't really worth the 20 euro." "I'm not surprised that it has 49% approval on Steam, that's about what I'd expect out of the target audience being trolled this hard, and that's amazing." "What little I heard of them in the trailer made me swear to never listen to the Japanese VA track, because holy shit, I can't stand that high pitched garbage." "English voices had variety." Reactions from reddit, 2ndthreadCombat is fine (played on Captain). Story isn't. Choices didn't matter, linear, blahblah... RPGcodex has gone completely quiet. It's better that way. That the game doesn't exist to them. If we can't survive even Steam and other sites, we don't have the most remote chance of surviving RPGcodex. Their negative reviews can make even the harshest reviews from other sites look mild. So yea other sites more or less have the same reaction as Steam, nothing we haven't already gone through, with perhaps just a little less vitriol. Anyway make those polls: Story, Turn based gameplay, Voice acting, Art/animation and audience preference for each of these. I will honor my words, sacrificing/reducing turn based gameplay if there are not enough people/ not enough support for it. Just survive through this. EDIT: Final suggestions (todo list) from myself: 1)More story/side quests/crew interaction. Make every single in-game variable/score currently serve a purpose. I will be counting. Have an option to play with "immediate variable feedback". Every time a variable/affection score is changed, flash the new score on screen so that people KNOW something changed. Another 4000 lines of text in script.rpy would put it on par with a regular chapter like FA or MoA, ON TOP of stuff done AFTER final scene. Doesn't matter if there are no voices for the added segments. Fuck the voices. Half the players mute the voices and the other half mostly can't understand it either. Voices = No voices. Yes that will take some time. I am prepared to support you on Patreon until it is released. You have my word. 2)I don't think the railroaded romance can be changed at this point without massively altering the script. Perhaps have some mild flirting on the part of the girls if their affection score is high enough but have Kayto refuse them all in favor of Chigara. Suggest you appease the masses by saying there will be routes for each girl in future games or money back guarantee. If no actual routes are planned or if it's going to be fixed romance from now on, you should go on Steam and publicly declare it to disabuse players of such a notion. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 8, 2016 7:23:42 GMT -8
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who thinks the difficulty needs tuned. Even on Casual (mode above Waifu), I was getting rocked as early as mission two or three. I'll admit it, I'm plagued by short term memory problems so I make mistakes. I layer flak and shield coverage for protection, but enemies layer on so many attacks that no amount of protection seems sufficient. At least spread vanguard and building a fleet helps, but I get chewed up by sheer numbers whether I try to engage from long distance and laser things down, or engage in knife fights and pick off high value targets quickly.
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 7:35:14 GMT -8
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who thinks the difficulty needs tuned. Even on Casual (mode above Waifu), I was getting rocked as early as mission two or three. I'll admit it, I'm plagued by short term memory problems so I make mistakes. There are already complainers on Steam saying its too easy for them. It's really hard for the devs to satisfy everyone. I'll give you an upgrade scheme to work on. Upgrade offensively. For mission 2: Triple kinetics per turn for Paladin, via reactor energy and kinetic cost reduction upgrades.
Double kinetics per turn for Seraphim, via reactor energy and kinetic cost reduction upgrades.
Triple pulse per turn for Blackjack, via reactor energy and energy cost reduction upgrades.
Buy both Alliance Cruisers and the 3 Union Frigates. Apply ShieldJam first before using lasers/pulse. Pulse works well only when armor is lowered. Take out both Arcadius and as many Battleships as you can. Disable any left over.
Look at Graph's thread as well for ideas on how to use rockets efficiently. |
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Post by KnightOfXentar on Mar 8, 2016 7:42:11 GMT -8
Final suggestions (todo list) from myself: 1)More story/side quests/crew interaction. Make every single in-game variable/score currently serve a purpose. I will be counting. Have an option to play with "immediate variable feedback". Every time a variable/affection score is changed, flash the new score on screen so that people KNOW something changed. Another 4000 lines of text in script.rpy would put it on par with a regular chapter like FA or MoA, ON TOP of stuff done AFTER final scene. Doesn't matter if there are no voices for the added segments. Fuck the voices. Half the players mute the voices and the other half mostly can't understand it either. Voices = No voices. Yes that will take some time. I am prepared to support you on Patreon until it is released. You have my word. 2)I don't think the railroaded romance can be changed at this point without massively altering the script. Perhaps have some mild flirting on the part of the girls if their affection score is high enough but have Kayto refuse them all in favor of Chigara. Suggest you appease the masses by saying there will be routes for each girl in future games or money back guarantee. If no actual routes are planned or if it's going to be fixed romance from now on, you should go on Steam and publicly declare it to disabuse players of such a notion. oh god, no. You don't tease audience with WAIFUs and you don't let them collect affection points with them (that's what choices in Mask of Arcadius were pretty much about: affection points) only to troll them later with " No, you won't get your waifu. We will decide whom will you get." I don't think people mind linear story. Almost everybody does linear games. But at least give them choices in crew interaction so their relationship can progress. example: In beach episode you could be mean/nice/indifferent to Sola. Or in space battle over Cera you could protest about nukes. Etc. Etc. Etc. Such choices dont affect linear story much, but at least it gives players some choices and they will know it will have some impact later. Also you don't have to rub it in faces of players (" every time a variable/affection score is changed, flash the new score on screen" is lame). Either let some characters react differently after some decisions (few lines here and there) or you could simply show short recap of "important decisions" with "to be continued" and you are guaranteed some hype. |
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 8:03:47 GMT -8
oh god, no. You don't tease audience with WAIFUs and you don't let them collect affection points with them (that's what choices in Mask of Arcadius were pretty much about: affection points) only to troll them later with " No, you won't get your waifu. We will decide whom will you get." I don't think people mind linear story. Almost everybody does linear games. But at least give them choices in crew interaction so their relationship can progress. example: In beach episode you could be mean/nice/indifferent to Sola. Or in space battle over Cera you could protest about nukes. Etc. Etc. Etc. Such choices dont affect linear story much, but at least it gives players some choices and they will know it will have some impact later. Also you don't have to rub it in faces of players (" every time a variable/affection score is changed, flash the new score on screen" is lame). Either let some characters react differently after some decisions (few lines here and there) or you could simply show short recap of "important decisions" with "to be continued" and you are guaranteed some hype. In other games, affection points are for opening up personal quests or getting upgrades for them or having better rapport and a bonus when attacking together. Those are valid reasons for having affection points as well, not necessarily having a romance with said character and getting married. But I suppose the expectation for most players for this game would be to have actual routes, which is why I put that first. As for showing feedback, some people do like that so they can track what is going on. I'm suggesting it as an OPTION (which will be turned off by default), not something for everyone. If you hate it so much that you don't think any player would ever consider having scores shown, sure take it out then. Less work for the devs. |
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Post by valikdu on Mar 8, 2016 8:43:25 GMT -8
The difficulty seemed balanced. MoA's Captain mode seemed all over the place; some missions were challenging and some were "OMFG THIS IS BULLSH@T" (like That Escort Mission). In LD, everything is challenging but beatable.
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 8, 2016 8:47:22 GMT -8
Replying to Drath:
At least that's getting me through casual. I still don't understand how people do this on Captain, but it's pleasing to know that removing upgrades seems to return the full cash value now. So failing all else, at least you can't bankrupt yourself on the screen if you have a moment and press lots of buttons to hear the beeping.
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Post by KnightOfXentar on Mar 8, 2016 9:22:42 GMT -8
You don't tease audience with WAIFUs and let players collect affection points only to troll them later with " No, you won't get your waifu. We will decide whom will you get." In other games, affection points are for opening up personal quests or getting upgrades for them or having better rapport and a bonus when attacking together. Those are valid reasons for having affection points as well, not necessarily having a romance with said character and getting married. But I suppose the expectation for most players for this game would be to have actual routes, which is why I put that first. As for showing feedback, some people do like that so they can track what is going on. I'm suggesting it as an OPTION (which will be turned off by default), not something for everyone. If you hate it so much that you don't think any player would ever consider having scores shown, sure take it out then. Less work for the devs. if you want to argue about pointless things like what are affection points and what is the best way to use them, then we will get nowhere. I will simplify it, so there can be no argument " let players make some decisions, that will influence their girlz". Simple. Though you are right, that some unlockable side-mission on star map is good idea.about routes in games: "actual routes" are really hard to implement if you want to make episodic games. For each route in each episode you have to do much more job in following episode. Can you imagine it? Amount of work usually grows exponentially! Only way to include routes is to mark one route as "true route" and ignore rest in following episode. (to be honest, what fan would want to count current ending of Liberation Day as "true route" ? Though you are right, that it's probably better alternative than just 1 bad route. )Well, I can see why linear plot is much easier than multiple routes. Still, developers shouldnt forget, that in case of linear plot they should be prepared to compensate lack of routes with some choices how to handle certain situations. Sadly, Liberation day had like 3? choices with zero impact. Mask Of Arcadius was better in this aspect and thats why people cant except it.
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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 8, 2016 9:51:40 GMT -8
oh god, no. You don't tease audience with WAIFUs and you don't let them collect affection points with them (that's what choices in Mask of Arcadius were pretty much about: affection points) only to troll them later with " No, you won't get your waifu. We will decide whom will you get."  I don't mean to be offensive with this one but, just had to do it to lighten things up.  |
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 10:07:24 GMT -8
Replying to Drath: At least that's getting me through casual. I still don't understand how people do this on Captain, but it's pleasing to know that removing upgrades seems to return the full cash value now. So failing all else, at least you can't bankrupt yourself on the screen if you have a moment and press lots of buttons to hear the beeping. I am glad that I was able to help a little. Those who are doing it on Captain or higher difficulties should: 1)Read the manual (wiki), especially this page. Make sure you have understood everything clearly. We used to have Skirmish mode on MoA to test things which is unfortunately gone. 2)Plan out what you want to do with that cash first, based on info from wiki on what is effective against various units. Having a good upgrade setup with necessary store purchases is half the battle won. I don't want to go into too much detail here though. This thread is for feedback. Not battle advice. If you still need help, make a separate thread and be specific as to what you are having issues with or PM me. The person you should thank for 100% return on cash on downgrades is Samu-kun. My old stand was and still is to use the old scheme 80% return on cash on downgrades to prevent people from suddenly changing specs/priorities. In other words you should have ONE setup more or less and that setup should be expected to be flexible enough to handle all fights. Might sound harsh, but as someone who's played since First Arrival days, I don't really like to encourage switching upgrades around with impunity. |
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Post by ariesbuonarroti on Mar 8, 2016 10:12:06 GMT -8
I see your image macro and raise you a better one.  |
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 10:21:53 GMT -8
Noting a LOT of players on Steam and Steam reviews STILL having lag during combat in Lib Day, despite the short animations.
It's always been fine on my side and I believe most of the other testers as well so I don't know what the cause could be. If anyone on this forum is having lag, could you please post your computer specs and contact Vaen with it? Also state when does the lag occur... as in during enemy turns or your turn or say upon use of a specific weapon.
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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 8, 2016 10:26:21 GMT -8
I see I have been bested. Your waifu is dazzling and has impact, good sir. Touche. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 8, 2016 10:40:14 GMT -8
Noting a LOT of players on Steam and Steam reviews STILL having lag during combat in Lib Day, despite the short animations. It's always been fine on my side and I believe most of the other testers as well so I don't know what the cause could be. If anyone on this forum is having lag, could you please post your computer specs and contact Vaen with it? Also state when does the lag occur... as in during enemy turns or your turn or say upon use of a specific weapon. I had the occasional instance of lag. Pretty much always during enemy turns. Never more than a few seconds though. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 8, 2016 10:42:00 GMT -8
<abbr>*Snipped image*</abbr> >husbandoing Fontana instead of Grey Not even willing to sacrifice a whole planet's worth of souls to win the war for the Revolution. How can you trust him when the rent gets high or the peace faction protests your Totally Legal under Alliance Law Arms Company? |
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 8, 2016 11:38:42 GMT -8
Noting a LOT of players on Steam and Steam reviews STILL having lag during combat in Lib Day, despite the short animations. It's always been fine on my side and I believe most of the other testers as well so I don't know what the cause could be. If anyone on this forum is having lag, could you please post your computer specs and contact Vaen with it? Also state when does the lag occur... as in during enemy turns or your turn or say upon use of a specific weapon. over time I've tried nearly anything I can think of to deal with lag as much as possible, but there's only so much I can do without completely rewriting half of all the battle code. I think it's better than than it was with MoA but then again now we're have battles of 20 against 30 ships which you really should not try in MoA. Only advice I can give is try a few different renders (shift-G) and maybe that'll have an effect individually, but I'm heavily relying on ren'py display code so there's not much control I have on this. I'd have to write my own viewscreen and manage sprites myself to get around this, but that was always something planned for a sequel - not LibDay. |
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Post by thfphen110 on Mar 8, 2016 12:13:24 GMT -8
Thought I'd make a few comments on my opinions of the story. Lib Day spoilers, and I apologise for rambling in advance. First of all, I only came across Sunrider after the release of Academy, but not because of Academy. Can't entirely recall how I came across it, but either way I enjoyed MoA for what I saw it as - a VN/Tactical hybrid with a theme which could be somewhat summed-up as "Anime Tactical VN Battlestar Galactica/ Homeworld with Mechs and Waifus". I'm also part of the cohort that doesn't really watch anime. But despite that, I really enjoyed Sunrider and its universe. Granted the battles were a bit laggy but they had their charm. It was serious, but not too serious or depressing. Characters were relatively evenly developed and missions were largely sensical with the story. However, a definition and focus on what the series actually is would probably go a long way in clearing up confusion. Having read through the code for MoA the illusion of choice is a bit obvious in hindsight. However, when playing it, at least for the first time it wasn't obvious. There was immediate feedback and what I anticipated to be consequences in the future. The PACT Outpost and the Astral Expanse missions were mutually exclusive. After threatening to go to the Press over the Ongess incident, Ava tells you that Grey has dropped in Alliance election polls. Blowing up the Legion leaves the Sunrider inoperable for the last battle. While there are choices in LD at least one is predetermined from old save data - namely saving Cosette. Aside from the Wishall this isn't entirely obvious at first glance. While I would find a blatantly obvious 'affection check passed' notification a bit boorish, it would be a possibility. Alternatively, there could have been a choice right before the Havoc is destroyed, with both being available regardless of affection: [Spare Cosette] If above threshold: As current 'save Cosette scenario' If below threshold: Something along the lines of offering Cosette a surrender, but getting readings that the Havoc is overloading its reactor, or something along those lines, because she'd rather die than surrender to you. Basically a false choice into destroying the Havoc but with some reasoning. [Destroy the Havoc] An option to destroy the Havoc even if you respect Cosette, basically. You can sympathise with her but loathe her means, I suppose? Possibly slightly different internal monologue for Kayto depending on affection. As for the Alliance politics plot, part of it went away when Grey was shot. Sure, he could survive, but with the drones there and Alliance personnel being slaughtered, the chance of him being rescued and stabilised would be low. And aside from Grey, there's no real other face of Alliance politics, so for some that plotline may have gone nowhere. Perhaps Versta could have been different depending on how you dealt with the diplomats (number of enemies, reward)? I agree with the points raised about sidequests. Back on the Hyperspace forums there was a bunch of mod missions, with one for each of the girls. The scenarios were unique, reasonable story-wise, had character development and the tactical battles were interesting too. They weren't really long, but I thought they went a long way in increasing campaign length and enjoyment on replaythroughs. Regarding romance, I'll preface this by saying that while choosing a waifu would be nice, it wasn't a priority. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion, but I suppose my main gripe with it was that I'd have rather seen something else. While the in-universe time of the story is admittedly short, I would have liked to see more political and military stuff. Development of what the Prototypes actually were and what they wanted. Long-term plans for the Alliance, PACT and Cera (seriously, Kayto? You're the senior CSF officer, you're going to be expected to reestablish the CSF and maintain Ceran sovereignty. The only thing you're going to be cooking once the war's over are civil servants over torpedo warheads that don't fit). Aside from Kryska and Icari (and to an extent Asaga) the other girls were not really there (Sola is practically a spear-carrying non-entity). Chigara was sort of pushed into view. While I didn't mind the "romance" in MoA I didn't actually see it becoming a romance, at least on Kayto's side. Guy's been through hell, needs a confidant who he can relax with who isn't Ava and who isn't the non-existent department heads or overtly concerned with making war. I expect this comes down to each player having a different way of viewing Kayto. For those playing a practical, pragmatic or professional Kayto PTSD over Cera City and Maray was not unexpected. A romance with Chigara was a bit rushed in its implementation. If you were looking to get an emotional change out of Kayto as a result of Chigara being a prototype (which is not unreasonable, and to be expected somewhat), romance didn't necessarily have to be the only way to go about it. Chigara could have been a really close friend or practically new-family to him (what with Ava growing more distant). Alternatively he could be extremely angry at himself that he didn't see it coming, or that he did and ignored it. BSG spoiler: C.f. Adama and Tigh. I suspect that slightly different advertising and a somewhat clear indication that the "forced romance" wasn't going to be permanent would have definitely cleared things up. Chigara getting a bullet in the chest might have been a clear indication, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think otherwise. Kayto still regretted leaving Maray behind until the end; it may not be unreasonable to think that he'd continue to pine for Chigara, which was not helped by his interaction with Fontana, especially if he had decided to "sacrifice" Ava to destroy the Vanguard beforehand. I don't mind a linear route, but slight changes depending on player choice would be an improvement, at least. I understand that it may be a bit too late to change the story majorly now, though. As for the ending, I did initially jump to the conclusion that the Sunrider was doomed, tilting at Machiavelli Actual in a quixotic charge. Having it smashed to the state where it currently is now does make it hard to see how the situation may be recovered, and I'll echo earlier opinions about how if the Sunrider is going to be saved, then it shouldn't be something completely random or out of nowhere. As for why I initially thought it was doomed: 1. No possibility of real repair or long-term survival. Sunrider and her crew are practically persona non grata throughout the galaxy. Her main batteries are gone, along with the Vanguard, and she has no missiles, with the only possibility of repair being basically a complete rebuild in a dry dock, none of which are available. Shields is wanted by everyone, and no doubt Cera's Government (if it has been established and survives) will declare the crew enemies of the state. Kryska is a deserter. Cosette is a pirate and was let out. The Mining Union is in the Alliance's pocket, basically, so that route's gone (along with our money), and the Sunrider has messed with enough pirates to be basically shot at first sight, and even if independent powers have the will, they may not have the drydock for something which is basically a capital ship. So basically, even if the Sunrider survives, it's reenacting the last voyage of the Bismarck. 2. No real possibility of rescue. The Sunrider is slap-bang in the middle of the Alliance Fleet right next to their flagship. If Asaga/Sola/Claude return, then there really isn't much they could do, except attempt to save the crew - what wasn't initially killed in the attack. Even if a fleet turns out of nowhere to smash up PACT and the Alliance the Sunrider is practically only good for scrap in its current state since it can't jump nor defend itself. After Helion the ship wasn't collapsing, with the hangar deck and weaponry basically melted into heaps of metal, so it could be repaired, but after Cera? It's a stretch. 3. The series' name is Sunrider. Even if a substitute is found, it would be different in some way (as for comparisons to Mass Effect, Mass Effect was about Shepard, not the Normandy. The Sunrider is basically home for everyone on it, and as much a character as the rest. She's the Vanguard of Far Port. The Wedding-Crasher. The Ghost of Cera. The Legion-Killer.). The girl's been through such a high intensity campaign that she could probably stand tall alongside Warspite or Enterprise. Granted this is a weak reason, but some people do get sentimental over this. If she's going to be destroyed, then make it so that if she goes it's in style; if she's going to survive, make it so that she's recognisable in the end. BSG spoilers below: In BSG, though it would have made more sense to save the Pegasus, they still saved the Galactica. But at least during the Battle of New Caprica, there was a hope that the story could continue when the Galactica was being smashed up because the Pegasus was believed to have escaped, along with the civilian fleet.
Since everybody's talking about the VA, I don't mind it being there, nor do I mind it not being there. While I'm sure LiS is trying to make the game to be the best it could be, the full VA-ing may have been a bit superfluous. Not an inherently bad thing, just, not exactly what the playerbase was looking for in terms of improvements. The art was great, though, and I did find the OP an improvement over the previous one. To close off, the fact that LiS is willing to listen and make changes is great. Miscommunication was undoubtedly part of the problem with the launch and the fault lies on both sides, really. I hope LiS can pull its way out of this to greater heights, and I'll continue to follow the series. |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 8, 2016 12:18:32 GMT -8
Only lag I get is when my computer tries to render any waifus besides Ava out of reluctance.  Taunting aside, in comparison to MoA the performance is a lot better - the problem is with this type of feedback is that you have to take it with a pinch of salt as there are so many variables on a local machine that can affect gameplay in addition to the game itself. I personally never really picked up on it too much in my sessions but then again I consider my RIG quite a bit above average which can bias the results when you are looking for the demographic average. My gut feeling though is that it has something to do with the background process of enemy turns as these were the only points in which I noticed slight lag, saying that I do not have the experience myself to be able to debug something like that nor do I really want to look into it with the game already out and a possible engine change in the next entry to Sunrider.  |
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 8, 2016 14:44:33 GMT -8
I noticed some lag in 2 situations. The first was when saving/loading (it felt clunky and slow), and the second was on the enemy turn, but specially on the ending; it almost felt like it needed 1 or 2 seconds to realize its turn had ended. And everyone, really, calm down a bit. Sometimes flops happen: Sunrider Academy was a hit for its price, Lib Day has been a flop. The devs probably already are nervous enough for us to add to the fire. It's clear that there has been a serious problem of communication, specially with the more casual fans that didn't realize what was happening. It's also clear that the best thing we can do is calm down and think for a while, and not say the first thing it comes to our head. Lib Day is a flop, but it can recover a little; it will never be remembered as a great (or maybe even good) game, but if Samu-kun can push v2 and time with a slight sale (perhaps for 15€ and the equivalent in $?) then we can recover a bit. Another sale during Steam's summer sale will push it even more; the game is pretty, once you lower its price beyond the "impulsive buy level" the sales should rise; people who only played Sunrider and forgot about it, but that because of that they're likely to be less affected by all the noise right now. We're around 2k sales, which while not terribly good (specially considering the amount given to backers/patrons/people-who-got-lucky-like-me/etc) is still the normal level on eroges. Now, personally, I think the answer is a lot more simple: more and better writing. The thing about choices is not so much about its effects but about its illusion. 10 lines in a clever place can sometimes be as effective as an entire semi-route; MoA actually did this a lot. The same happens with side-characters; I personally found The talk between Kryska and everyone (but mainly Icari)managed to be more emotional to me than the almost 2-hour drama of Asaga angsting about the love triangle (as much as I loved Asaga during that time).
MoA was again very good with this; the original tea-time with Chigara was actually fairly short, yet it was a mine for their fans. Ava also never really had a moment during MoA (well, the flashback), but build her force through a small line in each scene. She was always there, and always had a reaction for everything. And the setting; I want the old Sunrider that would just sprinkle a bit of lore in every briefing, in every talk. The one that told me about how PACT actually forbids space travel unless with special permission, the one that just finds time to tell you that Teutonia, a random planet you never visit, it's actually a backyard without warp, the one that would find time to mix Alliance politics with Local resistance and infight for resources. I'm sorry, but I don't want a Sunrider that puts me in a table where negotiations between PACT and the Alliance are done, and just skips 90% of it to simply offer a summary of the most important part (specially when this part is the closest thing to adding about the setting we have). |
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Post by 白龍 on Mar 8, 2016 15:05:01 GMT -8
I noticed several moments of lag. (even now in 2.0) Right after loading, during my turn, and during the enemy turn.
However I tend to put the game on perma ctrl-skip mode so I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it.
I also have a pretty decent computer, GtX 760, 8 core 4.0 AMD, 16 Gbs of RAM, etc.
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Post by Drath on Mar 8, 2016 20:42:19 GMT -8
Marx-93 thfphen110Lore and background of the setting is something which I've always felt Samu-kun does really well and brings the universe to life. If you look at his twitter, there are a good number of answers on social and political aspects of different worlds and even some elaboration on the economic and education system, and I'm pretty sure if there were questions on the legal systems of these planets, he could probably talk your head off xD So yea I very much agree having more of that inserted into various dialogues and demonstrate how/why things are as they are because of this. As for crew interaction, there should be a breather after Paradox Core was taken down and at some point, Sunrider was taken for drydock repairs. Pretty sure during the days after this where he's slacking around (and having his ToDo list of documents on his table pile up), there's ample time to talk to crew. Icari and Kryska got some light chat time early on, which was a nice touch. Claude got some air time too, though it was mostly about business, discussing about the prototypes and the like. So uhm, where's the flirting? Since that episode in FA where she got ass canned by Ava, she hasn't really made much of an advance. Have a look at her affection score and maybe have several more lines of personal questions/interaction after the prototype discussion is done. Of course don't actually tell the players who she is... but maybe slip a few hints as to what she did in the past (if her affection score is high enough) if Kayto presses the issue. Have tea with her maybe? Why do Ava and Chiggles get to be the only ones anyway. She's popular enough on recent polls that a bit more detail here would probably be good. Some people like mysterious, ditzy, busty women... <shrugs> On the illusion of choice, yes that's good too, but it still won't be pretty when things turn out somewhat the same. IMHO, it's time to provide some hard branching narrative based on existing parameters. Example: Remember those slavers you might have captured way back then in the Astral Expanse (or jammed their rescue signal and spaced them for good)... let's see the impact of that now. Write something on it.
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 8, 2016 22:24:08 GMT -8
Alas, dear Claude, we only summon ye, my waifu, when it is time for medicine or comic relief.
Sorrow drips downward
A waifu with a pink mane
Drowns sorrows in rum
I have to agree with the above. I know writing more material is a pain, but I feel like it would have helped quite a bit.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 9, 2016 6:39:20 GMT -8
Well, honestly I think one of the things that did us in was a huge misunderstanding during our beta test process. I legitimately thought all this time that we were making an indie Japanese tactics RPG game with some VN elements. Basically, we spent the majority of our time analyzing the huge game play analysis write ups that our beta testers provided, and devising new units, strategies, items, and balance which will appeal to them. We didn't receive much feedback regarding the story during the beta test, certainly nothing on the level of Drath's gameplay analysis posts, so it never even occurred to us there were issues with the story. We heard some vague comments and grumblings from Marx, but we couldn't really figure out what he was alluding to. We all liked J tactics games, so we thought this was cool, and put a lot of effort into making larger and larger battles with more and more unit types since that seemed to be what the testers cared about. I was actually concerned there was too much story, because all the tactics RPGs I've played never took the player away from the game play as much as Liberation Day and made sure to breeze through the plot so that you could get back to the gameplay soon. I was also not really concerned about Kayto temporarily getting hitched with Chigara, since most of the JRPGs I've played have had forced romance, and everyone on the dev team already know that this wasn't really a real romance route anyways, just some plot development. Likewise, I wasn't really concerned with the lack of choices, since most of the JRPGs I've played didn't have many meaningful choices and mostly had linear story lines. I was shocked to discover on release day that people actually skipped most of the gameplay by playing on waifu mode, and breezed through the story in just 3-4 hours. Well, yeah, it's to be expected that the game would be short then, because you essentially took a tactics RPG, skipped all the tactics RPG, and just read the story. It's a pretty stupid reason in hindsight, but this time I think it was just a dumb misunderstanding caused by a bad feedback loop between the developers and the beta testers where the testers talked 80% about the game play, and then the developers thought that people want 80% of the game to be about the battles and figured the story should just be short and to the point so that they can just go back to the battles. It was a pretty costly mistake too because the game flopped, but I think we can survive. I really hope that next time, an entire product doesn't collapse just because of some dumb misunderstanding. I think you didn't receive feedback on the story because (A) there wasn't much story at the time to give feedback on, and (B) people kinda expected it to at least match the depth of the past games. They didn't think/know this was something to worry about. Speaking as a layman, but I don't see how you COULDN'T have seen concerns with having Kayto & Chigara get railroaded together.
IDK if you remember... but Chigara was once winning the popularity contests (She'd either be no.1 in or tie with Ava and Sola) - But do you remember when that stopped? When she got less popular?
It was when it became obvious that there wasn't likely going to be much choice in her being the Romance Interest.
And if what you're saying is true... I'm sorry, but that almost makes it WORSE - like you gutted romance development in this game for something so arbitrary. What happened in LD could have been done without making it a Chigara romance - with the exception of the sex-scenes and obvious flirting, a lot of those scenes could have worked for a brother-sister bond instead of romance, and Asaga's jealousy could still have worked because of disbelieving any claims it wasn't what she thought. And there's another problem - you're trying to pin the failing for this on the beta testers!!! A Beta typically deals with GAMEPLAY MECHANICS, not story stuff - if you wanted that reviewed, you tend to have to SPECIFY that, because the primary purpose of a beta is typically to iron out gameplay bugs instead of story ones. Plus, people thought LD was going to be much longer - not that what they saw in the beta was going to be 50% - 70% of the whole thing. |
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