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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 0:56:54 GMT -8
Okay it has been a long quite a long night and I really want to get some sleep but before I do I would like to feedback on a few things and I would really appreciate if those of you reading this thread who have also played (and preferably finished) Liberation Day provided your thoughts so we can generate some ' constructive' feedback or questions for team LiS post launch. Before I begin I want to make it clear that it is hard writing this post, that while I want to write up what I like about LD I am also feeling a bit confused and nervous about where we are at - I want to help my understanding of some of the decisions made and hear the thoughts of everyone at this time now that the game is on public domain. I feel as though if we can remain civil we can review where we are at and help each other. In terms of the points I am going to raise I might tinker a bit after I have got some sleep but here is what is currently on my mind: - The EndingPersonally before I say anything directed at actual content, I would just like to hear the official line from LiS about the decisions behind this ending and why it was chosen? I have no problem with a linear story if it is well written and is designed to capture the reader's imagination of the event, the reader should feel part of the trip from A -> B rather than feeling like they are getting dragged against their will. The investment in choices made in the first game equates to so little in LD (ryder and order upgrades) and then in LD there are so few new choices that when combined with the ending there is nothing positive in the writing that means the player feels like how they played mattered - you will always get the same conclusion. This is an absolute no no if you are offering choices as you are enpowering the player to make their own story and then taking it all away again at the end when they are ready to see the fruits of their process making.
Edit: tl;dr - What I am getting at is Liberation Day feels as though for each choice made there is a negative ending at the end of it, there is no resolution as we are left with a frustrating cliff hanger for a sequel (that we do not know the form that it will take and therefore it is hard to feel any attachment for it) and the characters we grew to love within the series have either been killed off or removed from the narrative. No one is asking for a 'happily ever after', betrayal is a dark topic and it shows some of the ugliest form of humanity available but looking at the end of LD I just feel like you are trying to wipe the board clean of the previous games when I was hoping for more of a end of a chapter and the start of something new.
- Balancing ChangesSomething that came up in the Steam chat earlier was the fact that abilities and interactions had been changed with no change log, documentation or hints. In fact in some cases we were not sure there was any sort of discussion and it felt like things were just dropped into the final build. An example of this which springs to mind is suppress getting changed from a (1) turn ability at an 'en' of 50 to a (0) at an 'en' cost of 30. I was hoping to find out if you had certain changes in mind that you decided to apply at this point, or if it was a last minute decision taken during polishing? Edit: Another is that I am disappointed that 'Summon Battleship' has been removed entirely. - After further testing it seems to be that this order has an affection requirement / is bugged. - Release build bugsI can understand bugs being in a final build, it is inevitable part of patching but something that irks me is the fact that beta 12 went through 5 patches before 'release 1.00' was released and the final patch changed quite a significant amount of content without a beta build (both mechanically and functionality). As beta 12 was still missing content from the full game there were also segments that needed programming creating a lot of content to test internally as well as finishing and tidying up the game. As a result small things that could have been picked up have slipped through in the public release, now I know these things are now flagged in the technical section ready to be investigated but when I left a message on Tuesday asking about final testing and I never got a full response and I was left with a heavy feeling in my gut that a risk was been taken. I understand in the past that you have declined community development help Samu and also that you have a responsibility to protect the IP at such a sensitive time with the release date but maybe a legal disclaimer and a bit of trust and we could have flagged some of these earlier. If that is an issue I am sure as fans we would have been happy to have the release date knocked back a few days if it meant that the final build was fully explored. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 5, 2016 1:25:17 GMT -8
Honestly I'd say this is pretty spot on. With the current state of the game I really think it could use an "Enhanced" edition. Maybe another scene or two after the current ending to make it a bit less soul crushingly hopeless. Unless the characters removed from play in the ending really are gone for good. That... would hurt.
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Post by bigbossftw on Mar 5, 2016 3:09:24 GMT -8
Well Samu-kun posted on steam: steamcommunity.com/app/358750/discussions/0/405693392916980458/#p3I think the ending was horrid I'm hoping that they get a new game out by December but I think that's asking to much. The game was very short and I was on admiral difficulty. I don't see why they made the game so short. I would have paid for the 1st game mask of arcadius. NOW that looked like a good game. Your choices didn't matter that much and the art is kinda old, but there is more content in that game than what's in here and that was for FREE. Well I've made my point. |
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Post by zerohex619 on Mar 5, 2016 6:01:31 GMT -8
For me the issue is just lack of character and universe development. I loved the fact that you could interact with characters and learn their personalities along with getting to know the history and lore behind the Sunrider universe. The lack of these elements seems to make Liberation Day a rushed project. I may be wrong, and if i am wrong please correct me in this, but this series feels like a visual novel first and a strategy mech game second. And the key thing was that it didn't feel like visual novel at all.
If i would recommend a change it would be to not simply just tell a story by clicking on a space bar or the enter key, but rather tell a story through the characters that we meet. As a player, i would much rather have to talk to the crew to find the details of the story rather than it being straight up said in the story.
*SPOILER ALERT*
For instance, instead being told in the story that Asaga is getting angry because she's jealous of Chigara's budding romance in a cutscene, i'd rather have a cutscene where we see Chigara becoming more dark and angry, followed by a Q and A like the crew interactions in MoA where we can find hints of why she's so different. I think its these sorts of moments that can help branch character development while sticking close to the main story (which i noticed was a big thing in the steam forum). Then again these are just the ideas of a person who doesn't develop games for a living.
Overall, what i'd hope to see is a story that isn't only about just one form of plot device. Something where I can get a few laughs with one character, or really have a moment with another character before diving into a deep story. I like my pauses in the story just as much as I like the story itself. I think these sorts of things help with a lot of the complaints being voiced right now such as the story being too short and the feeling of being forced into a choice that as a player I may not have wanted. But like i said earlier, I don't make games for living, so i'll leave those choices to the professionals and hope that as a player, I can come back to this series excited as i was after playing MoA and First Arrival
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 5, 2016 6:12:46 GMT -8
And to think I'm just worried if I can finish the game on casual mode. I played the beta on waifu mode for maximum testing power.
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Post by harukazeki on Mar 5, 2016 6:55:50 GMT -8
.....sigh maybe next time, what has samu got to say?
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 9:07:32 GMT -8
Copied from Steam Community for Samu's response:Ahem. Hi everyone, so I'm Samu-kun, the president of Love in Space and the director of Sunrider.
First, to clear up a big misunderstanding, Liberation Day is not the last game in the Sunrider franchise, so the whole Mass Effect 3 thing is not true. I publically stated this in the Kickstarter, but forgot to mention it on Steam. Yeah, the ending of ME3 was ♥♥♥♥ing final and you were pretty much stuck with it. But that's not the case here.
If our full vision of the game plays out, Liberation Day is barely just the halfway point of your adventure. Of course, our vision is always dependent on how well the games sells and how expensive it is to make the game, but we definitely want to one day have numerous Sunrider games and have all your decisions throughout each game be linked together to create one epic narrative. We hope that Liberation Day sells well enough to make this vision a reality.
We take your in game decisions very seriously, and Liberation Day of course exports your affection levels with each of the girls, your morality scale, as well as a list of your in-game decisions to the yet unannounced fourth entry in the series. While importing data might be difficult because we're planning to change engines for the fourth game, we will always have a menu of choices for you to input so that your decisions carry on like Liberation Day.
While we are disappointed as well that LibDay did not have many moral choices, it's ultimately just a small part of the overall narrative we have planned, and it's just how the story went this time. Sometimes, some parts of the story will have a lot of huge decisions, and sometimes there won't be, so it's just how it played out. This does not mean that future installments will not have huge ♥♥♥ decisions because they obviously will. Once again, we're just barely at the halfway point folks, so you won't be seeing huge branches yet.
I treat each game like a season of an anime, and it's only tradition that each season ends with a huge ♥♥♥ cliff hanger. I think people would have enjoyed the ending a lot more if they knew that this was never intended to be the ending of Sunrider, merely just a cliff hanger for another season.
As for character deaths, I really don't want to spoil the story, so heh, plz look forward to how the story unfolds (and poke through Liberation Day and Sunrider Academy for clues). I can confirm the fourth installment picks up EXACTLY the moment Liberation Day ends, and answers many of the issues you have with the ending. (Eh, pretty much how every cliff hanger makes you freak out, and then the first episode of the new season resolves everything, you know.) We're really excited for how the relationships with the girls will unfold after the revelations in Liberation Day, and hope that you anticipate what is to come.
Unfortunately, since we can't go full Assassin's Creed and release a Sunrider game every damned year, the next installment will obviously take a very long time, but in the meantime, we hope you enjoy our coming product line up.
We hope this was just a misunderstanding because people thought LibDay was THE ONE TRUE ENDING when we're actually not even halfway! lol
As always, we are listening to your advice, and are fully committing to creating exciting and new waifu experiences.
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 5, 2016 9:37:08 GMT -8
I hope they keep working on the mechanical side of things. Because we got a bit away from that feel of 'it doesn't matter how good your tactics are because the enemies surge over you', my confidence is slightly renewed on that front. It feels like choices matter more than my prayers to the RNGesus.
On the story front, you can't fight middle child syndrome. Only thing worse than a middle child is an only child, and I know because I'm an only child. It could have been handled better, but the story had enough 'good' moments to make up for the moments where I threw my hands up, walked over to my roommate, and said 'wow' (and not in a good way).
Though I hope for better after Liberation Day, I think I will be far more cautious in optimism.
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 15:52:18 GMT -8
Okay now that I am rested and I have had a chance to eat something (is currently stuffing his face with nachos  ) I want to have a look at the post Samu made and update my feedback. Samu: If our full vision of the game plays out, Liberation Day is barely just the halfway point of your adventure. Of course, our vision is always dependent on how well the games sells and how expensive it is to make the game, but we definitely want to one day have numerous Sunrider games and have all your decisions throughout each game be linked together to create one epic narrative. We hope that Liberation Day sells well enough to make this vision a reality.
Samu: As for character deaths, I really don't want to spoil the story, so heh, plz look forward to how the story unfolds (and poke through Liberation Day and Sunrider Academy for clues). I can confirm the fourth installment picks up EXACTLY the moment Liberation Day ends, and answers many of the issues you have with the ending. (Eh, pretty much how every cliff hanger makes you freak out, and then the first episode of the new season resolves everything, you know.) We're really excited for how the relationships with the girls will unfold after the revelations in Liberation Day, and hope that you anticipate what is to come.No one is challenging that development and living expenses cost money but I think you need to put the brakes on even bringing this up, you are making this about money moving forward when the community is asking about the here and now. For me as a backer I read this and feel conflicted as you have not given any assurance that if you get the funding and manage to make another Sunrider game that feedback has been taken on board and that with this in mind you want us to continue buying and supporting the project anyway. Its all very well saying 'decisions throughout each game be linked together' but when the latest edition has '3'? decisions in comparison to the first two that together equated to '31'? decisions you must see why people are a bit concerned with this game in particular being linear and promoting very little reward for the wait since the original Sunrider. Why was a commercial release of Sunrider so bare in comparison to the original? If I was to do a process of elimination it would be the drive towards something you mentioned earlier about a 'commercial' product quality, it feels as though too much of the resourcing was put into the 'nice things' rather than the 'core things'. Samu: We take your in game decisions very seriously, and Liberation Day of course exports your affection levels with each of the girls, your morality scale, as well as a list of your in-game decisions to the yet unannounced fourth entry in the series. While importing data might be difficult because we're planning to change engines for the fourth game, we will always have a menu of choices for you to input so that your decisions carry on like Liberation Day.Something that players might not realise is that the affection levels in the first game affects what unlockables are available in the store but as this is not noted in the item or notified in the game only by reading through the game's resources or through community word of mouth would someone new learn this. By making this more apparent it would have shown that their previous decisions are impacting gameplay at least a bit and therefore empowering that walk through. In terms of the menu I like that you intend to keep the feature as it allows people to tweak variables on the fly without revisiting the previous games as long as there is something implemented to help people input this information if they have a previous save and cannot remember all their decisions (eg. a method of breaking down saves like an pictured mindmap?). Samu: While we are disappointed as well that LibDay did not have many moral choices, it's ultimately just a small part of the overall narrative we have planned, and it's just how the story went this time. Sometimes, some parts of the story will have a lot of huge decisions, and sometimes there won't be, so it's just how it played out. This does not mean that future installments will not have huge ♥♥♥ decisions because they obviously will. Once again, we're just barely at the halfway point folks, so you won't be seeing huge branches yet.You are on one hand saying 'the next one will be better' but on another you are saying 'our vision is dependent on how it sells', if this was the case why was the project not scaled down and the resources put towards the next game? Or better yet why not at the end of the current game include a segment that breaks the mold by introducing a battle scenario for Crow that would invest the player that something big is coming, the current ending just leaves a big question mark on what exactly we are to expect and all we can really do is reflect on Liberation Day which from the way it is written has the same negative ending no matter what way it is played. Samu: I treat each game like a season of an anime, and it's only tradition that each season ends with a huge ♥♥♥ cliff hanger. I think people would have enjoyed the ending a lot more if they knew that this was never intended to be the ending of Sunrider, merely just a cliff hanger for another season.Samu: We hope this was just a misunderstanding because people thought LibDay was THE ONE TRUE ENDING when we're actually not even halfway! lolI think its fair to say people understand this, I mean the game features the message 'to be continued' at the end suggesting that the story will be continued however I do not feel like you are reading the feedback in the way people are trying to portray it. People are upset with the ending or the writing of 'this game' not the Sunrider series which as you suggested is not completed. Development is about trust and at the moment this is what is been questioned as you need to prove that if another Sunrider game is funded that the same will not happen, for example on the Patreon you have the next goal (at $10K): '...kind of a ridiculous pipe dream, but one day, I hope to have a full JP voice over for our games... *_* At this tier, we can fully localize Liberation Day into Japanese and have all the character lines voiced'.As far as I am away this never hit the goal but a decision was made to make the localization the base game, now for me I am perfectly fine with having Japanese VAing but for other people there was no damage control for this other than that the modding scene would be able to repurpose the game. With this point I am not making a dig at audio quality as we have previously discussed this on the forum however you then just isolate part of your audience causing resentment if they cannot or are unwilling to adapt - if left un managed then these people will just give up on the end product which is in no one's interest. --- At the end of the day I love the Sunrider series and would love to see it bloom into something bigger as it has both charm as well as some special genreing (the tactical gameplay itself is really fun and special) that give it potential, however as much as I enjoyed Liberation Day I just feel at though it needed more development time and was released too early for the direction it appeared to be taking. On the development board if the game was going to be less focused narrative wise in regards to advancing the plot it needed more gameplay content, and if a push was put on advancing the plot we needed more meat on the bone for the text segments like character backgrounds and interactions - Alice for example had next to no character development 'within Liberation Day' before she was given the axe (for at least that is how it appeared). I hope this comes across okay as I mean well Samu, but I don't want the IP to take a nose dive as a result of Liberation Day and the only way that I can feel I have got my point across is by being blunt.  --- |
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Post by hiryu on Mar 5, 2016 16:31:23 GMT -8
I started to back this project at the very beginning(since the first one)on Patreon. At this point I feel disappointed(not because of the ending), here is why:
The game I got is too far away from what I expect.
I was expecting a game which is a combination of GAL&turn based RPG. In other word, a RPG which is very rich in its story /the choice you made matters. If you are familiar with Japanese games, think about <Persona>or <sen no kiseki>(you can't make choices and get different story in this one, yet the general pace of this game is slow and you get a lot of detailed story on different characters). For sure I'm not asking a game that one can play for 50+ hours(even 100 hours in NM mode). But how long did you spend in LD? For me that's 8 hours(captain mode). Not enough, not enough... Story1. The major story line goes too fast. There were a few moments that I felt like "wait, did I miss something?"... 2. More side stories needed. There are 8 girls who have different characteristics and background...why there is only one main line? 3. Choices are useless. Game play
1. Side missions. In this game I felt like "here are some missions, finish them and we continue...". No, side missions should not work in this way. These should go along with the whole story. 2. A more complex tech tree/equipment system perhaps? Things like: finsh this side mission and u get an unique upgrade for a ship/ryder. 3. Skill point systems. Once a unit got a kill she can get certain amount of point. And there are different skill trees for different girls 2 & 3 are merely suggestions. These are things that I looked forward before...(As a WOW&EVE player..) I feel disappointed not because this is a bad game, but because this could be a masterpiece yet turned out to be a normal game.
PS1: I'm not a native english speaker. If my comments sound offensive I apologize beforehand. PS2: I mentioned other games in my comments. Those are just used for a comparison. If it is offensive to bring up other games, I apologize beforehand. PS3: I love Sola! Dev guys keep it up. I'm looking forward to the next game. Or maybe an enhanced edition for LD? |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 17:42:38 GMT -8
I am happy to announce that Samu has made a post on Steam based upon recent feedback, Sunrider is going to have a V2.00. Please find the post below:
Hi everyone, this is Samukun, the president of Love in Space and the director of Sunrider.
Unfortunately, the release of the game did not go as anticipated. We only talked about how more games in the Sunrider series were planned on the Kickstarter, but did not mention it on Steam. This led many people to mistakenly think that the ending of Liberation Day was really the ONE TRUE ENDING of your adventures when none of us planned it that way.
After consideration of your feedback, we are planning a re-launch of sorts which justify a full version number change to V2.0.
V2.00 will be a fully FREE update which adds the following new features.
-MORE story content after the current ending which will answer some of your most burning questions and clear up any mistaken impression that this is the end of the series
-The return of the ship map
-MoA battle voices can now be toggled on in the preferences
-Of course regular bug fixes
We'll try working overtime to bring V2.00 online as soon as possible.--- Thank you Samu, this means a lot to me and I am sure the majority of other users.  As I previously mentioned with Beta 12.4a if you would like any help with the stress testing or general feedback let me know and I will help where I can. --- |
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Post by knightoblivion on Mar 5, 2016 18:48:35 GMT -8
Yea, I felt somewhat cheated being railroaded into a storyline, and the choices I made in MoA seemed to have little to zero impact. I would have felt much better about the entire thing if I had zero choices, and the story line played out this way. Of course, I would MUCH rather have choices, and they matter. That was what I was expecting and it wasn't what I got. This is pretty much the biggest fault with the game IMO, railroaded and choices didn't appear to matter.
Other things I didn't like: Everyone is dead?!?! Or like, half the people appear to be. It was short. But I hear this may be fixed soon, and for free, so that will be nice. The battle in the Ion storm was a total bitch and felt terrible to play, I felt constantly outnumbered and my ryders were off of key combos (an extra attack, one shot kills, ect) by just inches, the Sunrider wasn't available until the middle, yeaaa.
Things I did like: The battles were very good except one mentioned previously. Every single ryder now had a key position which made them useful and unique. The graphics have been upgraded, though the framerate in battles can get really really bad sometimes, with visible lag for animations. Actually, I'll mention it again since it's important to me, the battles were GOOD. The command point cap, the rate of gaining new points, I felt like they were rare enough I couldn't spend them willy-nilly, but never to the point where I was starved for them. Change to the Vanguard cannon, A+. Feels appropriately powerful, and it's hitting the sweet spot of hard to use vs never use it because it's too hard to use.
Other things for the future: If we have to give up good graphics and voice actors to have the story that's inside your head with choices and crap, I'll happily sacrifice for the story with choices. I forgive these sorts of things because this isn't a AAA title where I expect cinema, but the story makes or breaks a series like this. I would have taken hits to battle and music quality for a good story, but at this point those are so key to Sunrider that it would start to not feel like Sunrider anymore.
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Post by Azure on Mar 5, 2016 19:04:17 GMT -8
If anyone at LiS is willing to answer, what engine will you be using for the next installments?
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Post by Blackhead on Mar 5, 2016 19:15:26 GMT -8
First Impressions after casual playthrough on Captain: -I have mixed feelings about the story, but contrary to most people I do think that the ending section is pretty much the best part of it. The whole love triangle combined with pseudo love philosophy was ridiculously exhausting, and WAY to prominent in the overall narrative. I would have prefered to see more Grey, Fontana/Prototypes - PACTs internal struggle, preparations for Cera battle, instead of Asaga being jealous and lovey-dovey Chigara over and over again. This story segment was extremely static with no real character development for a looong time. Fontana was basically the saving grace in the end, by shooting Chigara the plot finally leaped ahead again. -From a technical standpoint obviously an improvement to MoA. Still a tad bit laggy, but I heard it's at least planned to have the next game on a new/different engine. -No problems with the japanese voices. (although I still have a special place for the originals in my heart.) -I'm surprised that so many people are upset about the lack of choices in Lib Day and name MoA as a positive example for player's choice/freedom. To be completely honest here, the decisions in MoA were quite rudimentary and didn't have that much impact whatsoever. I can understand Samu here, adding definite routes in part 3 when you plan a 6? part series will most likely turn in an absolute mess sooner or later. (Not even mentioning the financial aspect.) But fan's partially negative responses aren't surprising in the slightest. If you tease them for a whole game with a waifu they don't like and end the game in a way that suggests the death of their favourite waifu you make the crowd really, really salty. But props to the devs. for showing some balls! To conclude: The game was overall enjoyable, with it's (admittedly) sloppy written twist and chaos/everything's going to hell end, being my personal highlight. It was just crazy and all over the place, had to chuckle quite a few times. |
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Post by ariesbuonarroti on Mar 5, 2016 22:39:36 GMT -8
I think there's only one thing to say. Veniczar Fontana did literally NOTHING wrong. I consider his shooting Chigara the highlight of Liberation Day. That's how much the rushed, forced romance with her ground my gears. I'm not even very particularly set on a waifu yet, and didn't even dislike Chigara in MoA, but the way agency was completely stripped from the player for the sake of the linear storyline (and the way the storyline HAD to be linear due to production costs funding the meme-tier Japanese full VA) is what had me absolutely FUMING by the end of LD. I'm glad Samu's shown he cares and announced a v2.00. I was dreading a Mass Effect 3 style response calling the customers and patreon backers entitled. I'm really glad that wasn't the case. I think this trainwreck can still be rescued, but the forced Chigara romance is something that's going to be a blot on the story forever now, and something the following installments will have to write around. Them's the breaks, I guess. EDIT: Asaga and Ava did nothing wrong, either! |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 23:04:58 GMT -8
Veniczar Fontana did literally NOTHING wrong. Corr I have seen the light and this light is covered in glitter.  |
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Post by Histidine on Mar 5, 2016 23:16:13 GMT -8
I have mixed feelings about the story, but contrary to most people I do think that the ending section is pretty much the best part of it. The whole love triangle combined with pseudo love philosophy was ridiculously exhausting, and WAY to prominent in the overall narrative. I would have prefered to see more Grey, Fontana/Prototypes - PACTs internal struggle, preparations for Cera battle, instead of Asaga being jealous and lovey-dovey Chigara over and over again. This story segment was extremely static with no real character development for a looong time. I didn't really think of this before, but I definitely agree. We did get a bit of it with Kayto attending the peace talks and the scenes with Alpha, but more would have been nice. Edit: Another is that I am disappointed that 'Summon Battleship' has been removed entirely. Summon Battleship is available in the store after mission 3, with no other prerequisites. |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 5, 2016 23:40:37 GMT -8
I have mixed feelings about the story, but contrary to most people I do think that the ending section is pretty much the best part of it. The whole love triangle combined with pseudo love philosophy was ridiculously exhausting, and WAY to prominent in the overall narrative. I would have prefered to see more Grey, Fontana/Prototypes - PACTs internal struggle, preparations for Cera battle, instead of Asaga being jealous and lovey-dovey Chigara over and over again. This story segment was extremely static with no real character development for a looong time. I didn't really think of this before, but I definitely agree. We did get a bit of it with Kayto attending the peace talks and the scenes with Alpha, but more would have been nice. Edit: Another is that I am disappointed that 'Summon Battleship' has been removed entirely. Summon Battleship is available in the store after mission 3, with no other prerequisites. Hm I will take a glance in my next walkthrough, it was strange that in the beta I had access to it using my import but in the final release I wasn't able to use it all game.
Ah maybe it is my bad and I borked up my save in some way. Edit: Order confirmed as bugged. |
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Post by Samu-kun on Mar 6, 2016 1:08:07 GMT -8
Uhh sorry everyone, I was really busy trying to get V2.00 ready.
We were looking into Unity but nothing much has been decided.
Also, I was really hoping that someone would make that gif of Fontana, that's what actually summoned my post lol.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 6, 2016 2:51:44 GMT -8
On Alice, I think part of the reason of her null, well, everything, was that she was supposed to have a prominent part on the "Veniczar" novelization where everything about her character was supposed to be explained (BTW, can anyone from patreon tell what happened with it? It's completed? did wooly enter a hiatus? They told they were looking for way to get it other than patreon once it was completed, but I haven't heard anything since then).
Of course, deciding to have such a villain as the main one for Liberation Day was kinda, well, sloppy. Alpha had like more character, more development and more everything in the like 4 scenes she was in
Also, I started protesting before it was cool! Being serious, it does surprise me a bit those kind of shocked reactions. The writing in Lib Day always had issues, and I even pointed some of them as early on the second beta. Once things have calmed down (I suppose even I'm a little affected now), I'll probably do a bit of a writing analysis similar to my gameplay ones. I'll advise however that I'll probably be very blunt.
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Post by Drath on Mar 6, 2016 4:44:05 GMT -8
I think a lot of complaints are based on the fact that it is short. I hope people are not comparing it directly vs Mask of Arcadius because that's technically 2 parts of the trilogy, not one. The returning players will know that but the new ones might not realize this. Comparing 2 parts against 1 part isn't fair but I suppose expectations were very high for this one given that the wait has been 1.5 years (MoA released in Oct 2014). In terms of battles, things are basically almost equal, you'd fight around 9-10 for each part, and battles in Lib Day involve more units so I don't think it's this part which is lacking (or short). In terms of plot, I suppose you could say it is a bit short. Short as in the action takes place over a short period of time. The scene moves directly from Paradox Core right to Cera with only a few interludes in between and no real side missions by choice. Also short as in total lines of real text in script.rpy. The old MoA script.rpy has nearly 3 times the amount of lines of text compared to LibDay script.rpy. Anyway I've mentioned this way back during beta 11. Others too. Add that to the fact that this one is commercialized and MoA was free and its easy to see why people think that less effort has been put in here. Some other complaints have focussed on the lack of choice and consequence which I think is one of the more major issues. Any variable which isn't used really might as well not be there and things should be made a little more obvious for the average player. Have that ship map and let Icari have a discussion with Kayto on cloaking devices if her affection is high enough thus leading to the item being available. Just putting it there in the store all of a sudden is a bit of a jump. Also as mentioned above, it has been a really long wait and expectations are high. If you've waited 2 years to see whether your previous choices or affection levels have had any impact and don't see it clearly, it's understandable to conclude that it will never matter. This last part is entirely my personal opinion and completely subjective: I don't really care for the new voices even though some sound quite good (Icari in particular, I like Ava too though and Asaga towards the end was good), mostly because I can't understand what they are saying. I used to giggle at stuff that they were saying in combat, when it was English VA but I can't do that anymore. If you can't really understand something, I think the quality of it doesn't really matter much, not at least to me. I'd rather have Samu-kun or Vaendryl or Melonbunny just say some funny stuff for the units. Sure it won't be professional VA quality but it would have a personal touch and that to me is what counts. Not looking for AAA quality VA. I play turn based tactic games for the gameplay and in this game also to enjoy a good thrilling narrative. Voices for me are mostly secondary/supplementary. |
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 6, 2016 4:52:45 GMT -8
Any variable which isn't used really might as well not be there and things should be made a little more obvious for the average player. Have that ship map and let Icari have a discussion with Kayto on cloaking devices if her affection is high enough thus leading to the item being available. Just putting it there in the store all of a sudden is a bit of a jump. Also, try to put a tad more dialogue in the side-missions. We basically only have a short line before and after, even after finding freaking ghost ships (and somehow managing to partially restore them); in MoA we at least had the map with a tad more explanation of what we were doing and where, but here is "Ok, just have 3 long battles to get money" *After 3 hours of fighting and upgrading* "Done? Okay, let's continue~~" It just totally and utterly wrecks the pacing, and the game never recovers (it doesn't help that then it just jumps on the Battle for Cera without any kind of crescendo). |
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Post by Drath on Mar 6, 2016 5:19:31 GMT -8
]Also, try to put a tad more dialogue in the side-missions. We basically only have a short line before and after, even after finding freaking ghost ships (and somehow managing to partially restore them); in MoA we at least had the map with a tad more explanation of what we were doing and where, but here is "Ok, just have 3 long battles to get money" *After 3 hours of fighting and upgrading* "Done? Okay, let's continue~~" It just totally and utterly wrecks the pacing, and the game never recovers (it doesn't help that then it just jumps on the Battle for Cera without any kind of crescendo). Yea I had wanted to voice this before as well but I initially thought it was because they were focussing too much on the battles and would patch up the text later. Didn't happen. We are currently sitting at 49% on Steam and there is no way in hell that this game even remotely deserves that kind of rating. Tread very carefully, v2.00 MUST NOT fail. Better late than half assed. It would be tragic if this game goes down the same route as Blackguards, mostly abandoned, 95% discount all the time, with haters/trolls on their Steam forums 24/7, despite being a quality title, in their case all because initial reviews were bad, unclear mechanics, incomplete wiki and some nonsense about RNG. |
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Post by sephiroth12285 on Mar 6, 2016 7:35:44 GMT -8
I haven't yet played the game but seeing this I am wondering if I should hold off until the new update goes in.
I was going to play last night but then I saw the update news.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 6, 2016 7:39:39 GMT -8
I haven't yet played the game but seeing this I am wondering if I should hold off until the new update goes in. I was going to play last night but then I saw the update news. I'd wait until the update. Maybe run through MoA or Academy again. |
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Post by sephiroth12285 on Mar 6, 2016 8:00:15 GMT -8
That's what I did in preparation for LiD, replay a new game from Frist Arrival clear through MoA to get ready with a better save for LiB.
Speaking of Academy I need to finish the Ava route.
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Post by 白龍 on Mar 6, 2016 8:36:14 GMT -8
Hm. So, I finally finished a run through on the 1.0 release. I was surprised to see new content. ^0^ Ahh, that ending is much more satisfying than the one in beta 12.4a ^_^ Was a bit disappointed it didn't let me spend my money and Intel right after the battle. But I guess who has time for that when you have a ceremony to attend? Can't wait for what happens next. :3 Samu-kun, we'll be waiting! |
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Post by harukazeki on Mar 6, 2016 9:39:22 GMT -8
I announce that I will be referring to Samu-kun as mr yang until 2.0 is out, make of it what you will.
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Post by InquisitorJeeves on Mar 6, 2016 13:01:12 GMT -8
Edit: I now know how to spoiler tag things. Thank you again Magpie.
That ending was certainly a surprise. I think I spent the last 20 minutes in a constant state of "WHAT THE F**K IS GOING ON!?!". I mean, I expected a cliffhanger, but with this one I have no idea how it's going to continue. The Sunrider is toast, Claude and Chigara are dead, Icari and Kryska are either about to die or be captured, the crew of Sunrider is about to die, Cosette just decided to piss off and leave everything to die, and Asaga and Sola are heading to Ryuvia (and are likely to be devastated upon hearing the news of what happened after they left).
I felt a bit of a disconnect between Kayto and me as player character and player. While he was cursing Fontana to die a horrible death, I was more concerned about the killer robots who could likely turn their guns on anyone at any moment. While Kayto was ramming Machiavelli Actual, I was pondering whether or not doing this was the right choice. I mean, the Alliance doesn't seem like they'd be dumb enough to keep all of their anti-planet warheads on one ship, or even have just one warhead. And even if we DO stop them there, they built at least one in a month. Who's to say they won't just build another one and destroy Cera anyway?
I'm getting some mixed signals from the Prototypes. Do they want to help us fight off the Ebon Fleet or tear us a new butthole? Or do they just not see a difference? They definitely don't seem to understand humanity much considering their plan to help us involved killing billions in an interstellar war instead of simply giving us a warning (Though there is a chance anyone they told could've just gone "Ah yes 'Ebon Fleet'. An ancient fleet displaced in time that could conquer us all. We have dismissed that claim.").
Since there is a version 2.0 on the way, I'll just wait and see happens before I form any solid opinions on the game as a whole. But everything in the spoiler tag is what's on my mind after the ending. |
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Post by Nagashofchaos on Mar 6, 2016 14:03:22 GMT -8
I'm getting some mixed signals from the Prototypes. Do they want to help us fight off the Ebon Fleet or tear us a new butthole? Or do they just not see a difference? They definitely don't seem to understand humanity much considering their plan to help us involved killing billions in an interstellar war instead of simply giving us a warning (Though there is a chance anyone they told could've just gone "Ah yes 'Ebon Fleet'. An ancient fleet displaced in time that could conquer us all. We have dismissed that claim.").
First I'm going to advertise the wonderful [Release 1.0] Obligatory ending rant (/ discussion) thread that is slightly bellow this one, it has some indepth thoughts on the the things that happend As for that part of your question The correct answer is both (of the first two). Alpha (Gothic Chigara) is the leader/(strategist?) of the prototypes and still has the original goal of uniting humanity to defeat the Ebon Fleet. Alice (Commissar Chigara) is the general of the prototypes and has given up on the mission (most likely due to the death of Arcadius) and is now seeking vengeance on humanity. The common Prototype doesn't really have a self as so they simple take orders (L7NN might develop one had she continued to be disconnected from the psychic web). It should also be noted the Prototypes were possibly created for the exact point of combating the Ebon Fleet or just uniting humanity (so it doesn't try and kill itself again).
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) I want to have a look at the post Samu made and update my feedback.
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