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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 12, 2016 22:55:15 GMT -8
This is more to provide something constructive for Samu-Kun to look at if he decides to persist in not making the "railroad romance" in LibDay optional. Naturally, there are SPOILERS ahead; If we do in fact get the option to pick a different waifu in future installments of Sunrider... how do you - the fans/players/ect - expect Kayto to rationalize entering another relationship after what happened with Chigara? How would he look back on it entering a new relationship? Would he see what happened with Chigara as a fling? A rebound to finally forget Ava? A complete mistake? Would it be a memory he still treasures or would he feel depressed? Would he feel it was real at the time or would there be any guilt at the idea that he might have just been stringing a poor innocent girl along by the heartstrings just for his own happiness? Would he even be able to really get into another relationship for fear of just leading somebody on with something that may not have even been real? Would he see himself as inhumane for having been with Chigara like that only to now be trying to get with someone else? And how do you think it would affect trying to be with someone else - what would the other girls think? Would they feel awkward thinking of poor Chigara having been in love with Kayto all that time only to now be the one with him instead? Would they feel sickened? Upset? Unsure? Would they wonder if what was between the two had ever even been real and if anything they get into would be real? Would they question how much Kayto cares about them if he can really just go into another relationship after (what I assume to be) a few short months? Or would Kayto be the one that isolates himself so much that they pry him out of it as he gets closer to them - would THEY be the ones to convince him it's safe for others to love him and vice-versa? If Samu-Kun isn't going to change what happened in LibDay regarding that forced romance - and because I for one sure as hell can't figure out personally how future romances will work if that stays as is - how about you the community pitch in and work together to give him and the staff tips on how he COULD make it work? Or at the very least educate me on how it would  . Because, contrary to what some (like I assume vaendryl) may believe, I do in fact understand the idea behind having a main character who is fallible, human and majorly screws the pooch/gets into something that really complicates how he moves forward with his life and how he interacts with others, even if I don't agree with not giving any agency to how that something plays out before or during the fact. So have at it - discuss how YOU think the complication of his tragic failed romance with Chigara would or wouldn't affect Kayto having a relationship with the other waifus. Given my not knowing how that would work/how trying another romance with a Kayto who WAS in a relationship with Chigara would work, I'll stick to an observer role for this discussion for the time being. In fact I doubt I'll ever comment on the ideas posted - you know, seeing as, again, I can't think of how it would work; that's gonna be your job  . |
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 13, 2016 0:57:47 GMT -8
since I like FSN, I'd add a bad ending. didn't give Chi the D? okay. way later near the end you then won't be able to exorcise Alpha and she shoots you instead. game over. show a short sketch of claude and asaga making fun of you for making the wrong choice way back in the beginning and send you on your merry way back to the main menu. better luck next time emoticon_chigara_small I don't accept bullshit about sisterly love being just as good. either that's a very weird notion about what it means to 'love a sister' or a very naive understanding about adult relationships. I could compromise about not actually having sex, giving some shit excuse about the timing being wrong or having a headache or w/e and just straight up skip the sex scene (and have a kiss instead maybe) but leave all the rest the same. sounds like it could dodge some of the most vocal butthurt. as for how to handle a new relationship, well. that's where it gets interesting. player will make some choices, affection ratings get checked, some romantic moments later Shields realizes he somehow ended up with the hots for whatever waifu the player guided him towards. and then the chigaras will remind him that although he ended the relationship after branding her a traitor when he came out of that escape pod, she never did. hell hath no fury indeed. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 13, 2016 1:49:28 GMT -8
I'm not saying that Yandere Chigara is the best thing that could have happened to her character.
But Yandere Chigara is the best thing that could have happened to her character.
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Post by Somasam on Mar 13, 2016 2:32:02 GMT -8
I honestly think the concept of a relation after chigara's will be a very fun one to tackle; for the author, for the player, and for Kayto himself.
I kind of play Kayto as an affable, reassuring, and protective individual; but who's also a rationalizing/calculating, trained navy captain who is able to see the big picture and make the tough choices (Kind of a lot like Fontana). He sympathizes with his crew, promises them he will not just throw their lives away, and is against senseless wastes of life. But he also originally planned to sacrifice the diplomats after Icari's reasoning, appreciates the usefulness of advanced technology to achieve his ends, and is willing to trade one life for taking out the enemy's greatest advantage which otherwise would've ended in even more lives lost had it been left to continue to pound into the alliance fleet. Of course this is just me, and everyone is bound to have their own interpretations of Kayto, but it allows me to continue on with my view of things.
I believe that through liberation day, Chigara's relationship with Kayto was a huge plot and character point. It was both his greatest support and his greatest weakness.
She was his emotional crutch, and without her, Kayto might well have been unfit for service this late into a war where he otherwise has not had much time for himself. He's been commanding a ship (and latter a fleet) against insurmountable odds since the beginning of the conflict. The only major relaxation period they got was between FA and MoA, and a few other people made the observation that Kayto himself did not get to relax, as he seemed to be focused on making sure everyone else was relaxing and enjoying themselves. In other words, Kayto is at the end of MoA, a complete wreck and Chigara is one of the only things that is able to see him through that dark time. Because of this, they get closer and Kayto is dependent on her more than ever for the duration of Liberation Day.
On the other hand, Kayto seems to acknowledge during the 2.0 scene in the cargo ship that he let his emotions and personal life cloud his judgement and get in the way of his job as the captain of a ship full of other people. He is responsible for the lives of all those under his command, and Chigara's relationship with him drove divisions amongst his himself and his crew, as well as isolate individuals from the rest of the crew. With his attention divided on both the war as well as his relationship; it made it hard, if not impossible for him to see these rifts forming, not to mention dealing with them before they could cause serious problems.
I believe that Kayto will have some fond memories of his relationship with chigara, and it will have had a major impact on his character. So I doubt he will just completely forget about it overnight and seek other waifu booty. Along with this I believe that he has learned a very important and very costly lesson due to his relationship with Chigara, and I feel that he will if anything, try to prevent any new major relationship from popping up between him and one of his subordinates for the time being.
He needs to refocus his efforts on winning the war for Cera, keeping his crew in top shape, while also not neglecting any individual person, like Asaga kind of was in Libday. While also keeping a professional distance to make sure he does not let himself be overly emotionally compromised and make poor tactical decisions with very costly outcomes.
In conclusion: I feel that for the next chapter or so, Kayto will appreciate what he had with Chigara, and will not enter a new relationship.
There will of course be hints, fanservice, and the possibility of something more in the future, but for the time being his ultimate goal will continue to be liberating his home planet, as well as probably end up protecting the galaxy from Harbor Crow.
However, after this is all said and done and he is back home, it will have probably been a few years since liberation day. He will be done commanding a one-ship-war and will no longer have to deal with the lives of his crew resting in his every decision. This will have probably given Kayto a reasonable time to deal with his baggage and entertain the idea of entering a long term relationship with someone. That is why I kind of think the ability to choose your girl should come near the end of the main series, or at least this arc of the story. After the job has been done and Kayto is not having to worry about his every decision having massive consequences.
Sorry for the long ass, and possibly very poorly composed post. I apologize if people are just confused by my random rambling on the matter.It is currently very late (early) and I am dead tired, but I thought this was a fun question posed, and wanted to share my interpretations with you all before going to bed.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 3:40:30 GMT -8
I always got the impression the reason why the Captain went for Chigara is that she literally sneaked in his heart, in a moment where his closest connection (Ava) basically gave up on their relationship. Yes, Asaga could have worked, but Asaga was in his "I want my bf to be happy" mode, and so the only one being actually forward was Chigara and Claude, but she is out for obvious reasons as much as I like her. As Somasam said, the captain was a wreck; Ongess just rekindled the flame of his doubt, his failure. Until that moment he simply had been so busy trying to survive that he didn't have the time to question what he was doing; either letting the slavers free or killing the diplomats the Captain can't stay to really be hit for the consequences of it, and in both cases he had pressing matters and 3rd parties to blame. Now, on Ongess is when he is fully hit by something that is purely his fault; all the dead people (including the little girl) were killed simply because he had chosen to visit the surface with Kryska and later chosen to talk to a little girl. Purely his negligence. His later failure against Fontana is another punch; he is repulsed by the Admiral's methods, but begins to ask himself if that really is the only way. If he simply can't do better. Was he such a failure? Maray. Was he negligent? Maray. Could he have done something to improve it? Maray Could have he tried to save someone? Maray Maray Maray Maray Maray was basically the proof of his failure as a brother, a captain and person. Realizing that in fact nothing had changed since Cera, that he was still a failure that couldn't save anyone make him fall into depression and become a living wreck. He tried to overcome it with the Legion, but that didn't go so well; either he realized at the last moment that he was making a mistake, or he put the life of his dear love in grave danger for his own personal revenge. Realizing that, in any of the both cases, he had (in his mind) failed Ava too, he simply chose to try to do the same thing as her and forget about their relationship. And what better way to just forget, about failing his entire family, about failing his little sister and about failing Ava that go into the arms of the only person who has always been trying to comfort you, who loves you entirely and accepts everything about you? What changes after the ending, is that the captain has actually finally got the redemption he was seeking. In his (supposed) final act ramming the Paradox Core Battleship he saved Cera, and even made peace with his sister's death. He realized he could actually save people, but also that other people loved him too. Ava finally admitted that, yes, she remembered, and yes, it was a wonderful dream. Asaga, Sola and Icari swore to protect him; Kryska of all people changed sides. He was loved too, and he didn't really need to fabricate a family, or open a bakery or have someone love him unconditionally. He has his crew, even if his ship is no longer. Now, he can actually think: did he really love Chigara unconditionally? or did he simply dove into her arms because it was the coziest, the easiest way to mend his heart and not break down? did he really want a bakery and a family with her, or was he simply trying to replace his lost home with another one hastily build? Now, he is no longer breaking down over guilt and failure, and has realized he has a home, so he can actually think about this. I fully expect this conflict to take a central part (while the options in 2.00 were not bad, they as if the Captain made up his mind a tad too quick), specially when Chigara returns. |
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Post by KnightOfXentar on Mar 13, 2016 4:53:18 GMT -8
first thing OP writes: This is more to provide something constructive for Samu-Kun... blah blah yada yada ^ generally this is the BS (bullshit) we should avoid. Trying to advice how the story should go, basically "love" story written by comittee |
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Post by valikdu on Mar 13, 2016 5:06:12 GMT -8
...and then it's revealed that the player actually controls an Ethereal who controls Shields. And Shields is having none of that.
PLOT TWIST.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 13, 2016 5:13:07 GMT -8
...and then it's revealed that the player actually controls an Ethereal who controls Shields. And Shields is having none of that. PLOT TWIST. The Hive Mind Greatly approves... |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 13, 2016 6:27:56 GMT -8
Shields dies at the end and his romance choice is mostly cosmetic, as the girl he has the highest rating with goes on to do something in his honor that the galaxy remembers?
I mean, I know they aren't killing Shields at the end, but they could totally kill Shields at the end.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 13, 2016 6:40:00 GMT -8
Shields dies at the end and his romance choice is mostly cosmetic, as the girl he has the highest rating with goes on to do something in his honor that the galaxy remembers? I mean, I know they aren't killing Shields at the end, but they could totally kill Shields at the end. Nonononono. You don't want to know what the Yandere Hive Mind can do with that. You just don't. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 13, 2016 7:29:34 GMT -8
I know what they can do with it, but I want to see what they do with it.
It's like a science experiment, Admiral. Except I'm not sure the scientific method will ever be consulted.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 13, 2016 9:09:02 GMT -8
I know what they can do with it, but I want to see what they do with it. It's like a science experiment, Admiral. Except I'm not sure the scientific method will ever be consulted. So many bakeries... So. Many. |
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Post by Ardanis on Mar 13, 2016 9:50:55 GMT -8
Tricky subject... On one hand, I really didn't like the forced Chigara route. Though maybe that's because I was Ava's fan... On the other, I think it worked out rather great in the end, as it provided excellent character development for Asaga. The transition from the initial embarrassment to the dark pit of despair to hateful jealousy to reconciliation to the reunion was very well done. The hug scene was particularly brilliant, saying petty much everything about her feelings.  I even ended up betraying Ava in the waifu poll  If the player had an option to pick Asaga right away, I highly doubt the abovementioned would even be possible. Sunrider was the first VN that I played (unless Loren the Amazon Princess counts), so I don't have much knowledge if the genre handles such things differently from traditional RPGs. But if working in the RPG industry for several years have taught me anything, it's that any attempts at dramatic development are doomed to fail spectacularly when player is allowed to make a real choice, be it romance or not. You can have love tracks written for each party member, and they can even be all good, but in the end they feel like mini-games where you try to score high and get a sex scene (or something equivalent). Which may be not so bad if you're in for gameplay, but if you're in for the plot, then... medium format restrictions are not the only reason we don't have branching plots in books and movies. Long story short, being able to select your waifu is nice, but it tends to dull the experience. While taking linear approach you risk rubbing salt into those who don't share your preferences. |
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Post by Gamerjunkie27 on Mar 13, 2016 9:58:17 GMT -8
I know what they can do with it, but I want to see what they do with it. It's like a science experiment, Admiral. Except I'm not sure the scientific method will ever be consulted. So many bakeries... So. Many. Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. |
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 13, 2016 10:03:07 GMT -8
So many bakeries... So. Many. Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. Which would be great. Unfortunately dying activated her Yandere side. So she LOLmurders whoever our man Kayto tries to get with. Because she's coming for him. |
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 10:03:20 GMT -8
Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. The question is... Would Icari be one of the cats too...? |
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Post by Gamerjunkie27 on Mar 13, 2016 11:45:42 GMT -8
Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. Which would be great. Unfortunately dying activated her Yandere side. So she LOLmurders whoever our man Kayto tries to get with. Because she's coming for him. Well, then. I guess they'll all just have to die. |
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Post by valikdu on Mar 13, 2016 11:58:22 GMT -8
Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. The question is... Would Icari be one of the cats too...? The radio said: No Icari, you are the cats. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 13, 2016 15:42:21 GMT -8
Well, then. I guess they'll all just have to die. Nothing personal, right? |
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 13, 2016 21:47:50 GMT -8
first thing OP writes: This is more to provide something constructive for Samu-Kun... blah blah yada yada ^ generally this is the BS (bullshit) we should avoid. Trying to advice how the story should go, basically "love" story written by comitteeThing is, if it weren't for the "comittee" speaking up, IDK if we'd have gotten V2.00. Plus, Samu-Kun himself said that lack of "comittee" comments on writing/story was why he figured it wasn't what people wanted from Sunrider. Sides, whether or not Samu does anything with the feedback is his option - as is, the thread works just as well as a medium to voice how people think the relationship stuff will go. |
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 13, 2016 22:29:09 GMT -8
since I like FSN, I'd add a bad ending. didn't give Chi the D? okay. way later near the end you then won't be able to exorcise Alpha and she shoots you instead. game over. show a short sketch of claude and asaga making fun of you for making the wrong choice way back in the beginning and send you on your merry way back to the main menu. better luck next time emoticon_chigara_small I don't accept bullshit about sisterly love being just as good. either that's a very weird notion about what it means to 'love a sister' or a very naive understanding about adult relationships. I could compromise about not actually having sex, giving some shit excuse about the timing being wrong or having a headache or w/e and just straight up skip the sex scene (and have a kiss instead maybe) but leave all the rest the same. sounds like it could dodge some of the most vocal butthurt. as for how to handle a new relationship, well. that's where it gets interesting. player will make some choices, affection ratings get checked, some romantic moments later Shields realizes he somehow ended up with the hots for whatever waifu the player guided him towards. and then the chigaras will remind him that although he ended the relationship after branding her a traitor when he came out of that escape pod, she never did. hell hath no fury indeed. Ok… breaking my rule a bit here about not commenting, but what you said both gave me an idea and a chance to maybe clear up something? See, vaen, the reason I disagreed with you about the whole love thing was because it felt (to me) like you’re saying “you can never love your family as much as your girlfriend/boyfriend, because you can’t have sex with them!” It felt like you’re saying the sole reason platonic and romantic relationships are inferior/superior is because one offers sex… and to me, that just feels an incredibly shallow definition of what love means (provided I didn't misinterpret your intent). Love is love - and thinking that it requires sex to be powerful flies in the face of the entire “familial love” vibe the Sunrider crew as a whole had. Claude pretty much proved this to Asaga in LibDay, didn’t she? That love means more then just who you’re sleeping with? I’m all for the compromise - I do think it would axe a lot of complaints - but I’m hoping this pseudo-tangent clears up a bit of the reason why I, and probably many others, weren’t big fans of the arbitrary romance, even if we can somewhat understand the reasons it was done. Still, based on the comments here, I can now somewhat understand how getting a new romance would work - though by all means I'd enjoy hearing more! On the relationship part, I’d actually thought of something that could add even more depth: Say Chigara returns, and Kayto does in fact decide that the relationship was just him seeking comfort. I think it would be interesting if Chigara admits she KNEW that already - that she was fully aware, or at least believed, Kayto was just using her as a comfort tool instead of truly loving her. And yet she let him do so because she felt his happiness was more important, to everyone aboard the ship, then her own was or even if their relationship was ever "real".
It would really highlight Chigara’s kind-nature (or at least her nature before Fontana killed her), as well as serve as a development tool if she is able to look back in hindsight and decide it was a mistake to make herself Kayto’s comfort-tool because it let Kayto become too dependent on her - to the point that it blinded him, like what Marx and Somasam suggested.
Or instead, if she absorbs traits from Alice or Lynn, she could also express bitterness about it - anger that this was the extent of the relationship, jealousy for whoever Kayto is with now and a generally more jaded outlook on what Kayto does and doesn’t mean to her (you know, after she sacrificed her happiness and even her innocence as a woman for his sake and pretty soundly got the short end of the stick). All of which would add another, very dark layer to Kayto getting a new relationship - knowing that his ex gave up everything just because he was in a rut and didn’t care if it wasn’t actually real or if she got nothing back… which makes him both an unwitting jerk and partly responsible for her tragic fate because he accepted her as an outlet so readily and didn't think it through. |
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Post by Nemjen on Mar 14, 2016 0:53:49 GMT -8
I suppose the issue I have is that if Sunrider is gearing more towards being episodic then if the romance options are included in one game then they will need to be included in all of them to avoid trigger player retort.
For me this translates as it should really be the final entry in this arc that really touches on the prospect of romance routes (if even at all) as the player will have made their decisions up until now and then the story can branch off into a more refined conclusion rather than branch into branch into branch and then getting a simplified ending (players complaining that nothing changes or the characters are not emotionally responding correctly) / overly complicated plot line (making the writing and therefore the release dates even longer).
Can you imagine coming on the forums after Sunrider 6 and seeing 'Discussion about Sola (S4), Ava (S5) and Asaga (S6) branch ending'? It would be a nightmare in general to create, test and discuss.
Liberation Day was on the rails but that wasn't necessarily a bad thing, now I wouldn't have minded if there was a bit more balance between character interactions to make up for this (eg. Kayto's crew life) as for me the attention on Chigara limited the growth of other characters and even if not a love interest of the game you would still would be able to love more of the moments they are included. 2.00 made up this ground especially with the scene Ardanis previously mentioned which took a very dark and troubled atmosphere and triggered a string emotional reunion for the cast, this would have been something that would be difficult to do if you had routes as a new response would have to be drawn up for each interest choice and the writing would have to be adapted to suit the character.
I might be a minority voice in this but I would rather have quality use of a route system rather than it being forced into a model that does not currently support it.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 1:02:09 GMT -8
The thing is, would Chigara and the Captain not having sex completely change their dynamic as a couple? I think part of the problem is that the key word in their relationship is "family". And it's very clear that this family refers to one they're making themselves, it's not the Sunrider's crew. This is the main distinction and what makes so very difficult to simply change that nature; you don't open a bakery, share home and adopt children with your bf. And renouncing to that, is well, renouncing to everything Chigara hoped for; her bakery, her 3/4 children, her dog, etc.
I agree with everything on your spoiler; one of the best part about this development is that it actually allows Chigara's future route to have a lot more depth and darkness to it, something that as seen until now was completely lacking on their relationship.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 14, 2016 11:09:11 GMT -8
The thing is, would Chigara and the Captain not having sex completely change their dynamic as a couple? I think part of the problem is that the key word in their relationship is "family". And it's very clear that this family refers to one they're making themselves, it's not the Sunrider's crew. This is the main distinction and what makes so very difficult to simply change that nature; you don't open a bakery, share home and adopt children with your bf. And renouncing to that, is well, renouncing to everything Chigara hoped for; her bakery, her 3/4 children, her dog, etc. I agree with everything on your spoiler; one of the best part about this development is that it actually allows Chigara's future route to have a lot more depth and darkness to it, something that as seen until now was completely lacking on their relationship. That's just it - it's not as a best friend but as a big brother. You're telling me that if this had been Maray, Kayto wouldn't help her with her kids, open a business and live with her if she needed help, or even just offering to help as a matter of course as family? This is again why it feels like you and vaen are saying "sister is lesser then girlfriend because no sex!" The fact of the matter is I don't think that nature would in fact actually change - just the manner in which it's expressed. But that's beating a dead horse by this point. Nice to know that I am in fact contributing something. |
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 13:53:38 GMT -8
That's just it - it's not as a best friend but as a big brother. You're telling me that if this had been Maray, Kayto wouldn't help her with her kids, open a business and live with her if she needed help, or even just offering to help as a matter of course as family? This is again why it feels like you and vaen are saying "sister is lesser then girlfriend because no sex!" The fact of the matter is I don't think that nature would in fact actually change - just the manner in which it's expressed. I feel the two are distinct; brothers and sisters help each other, but are supposed to take different paths. Of course, this can fully depend on your subjective implication of what does a brother/sister mean, and I don't think derailing this thread to that is on topic, but I believe there's a very different implication between "starting a family" and "being a family" (here, I can even point to the fact that the Captain was so focused on the first to rebuild his lost blood family, that he forgot that he already had the second; the Sunrider) Here the idea is the two starting on a common point after the war: would Chigara if Kayto was "only" his big brother go live to Cera (which she doesn't know or has ever been) or would she plan to go with her best friend (with which she has already fled together once and knows from before) to a Ryuvia she already knows and has lived before? If she really wished to be with his "brother" so much to do that, then I feel some implications would unavoidably slip by, even with a fully platonic relation. Specially with Chigara's characterization until that point. Would it mean so much not having sex at this point? And, well, on the Captain's part it could work, but then I think even he would probably recognize she has made Chigara a replacement for Maray. And that she kinda has a crush on him. So he is kinda a super-asshole instead of a naive and deluded broken man. |
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 14, 2016 16:23:17 GMT -8
That's just it - it's not as a best friend but as a big brother. You're telling me that if this had been Maray, Kayto wouldn't help her with her kids, open a business and live with her if she needed help, or even just offering to help as a matter of course as family? This is again why it feels like you and vaen are saying "sister is lesser then girlfriend because no sex!" The fact of the matter is I don't think that nature would in fact actually change - just the manner in which it's expressed. I feel the two are distinct; brothers and sisters help each other, but are supposed to take different paths. Of course, this can fully depend on your subjective implication of what does a brother/sister mean, and I don't think derailing this thread to that is on topic, but I believe there's a very different implication between "starting a family" and "being a family" (here, I can even point to the fact that the Captain was so focused on the first to rebuild his lost blood family, that he forgot that he already had the second; the Sunrider) Here the idea is the two starting on a common point after the war: would Chigara if Kayto was "only" his big brother go live to Cera (which she doesn't know or has ever been) or would she plan to go with her best friend (with which she has already fled together once and knows from before) to a Ryuvia she already knows and has lived before? If she really wished to be with his "brother" so much to do that, then I feel some implications would unavoidably slip by, even with a fully platonic relation. Specially with Chigara's characterization until that point. Would it mean so much not having sex at this point? And, well, on the Captain's part it could work, but then I think even he would probably recognize she has made Chigara a replacement for Maray. And that she kinda has a crush on him. So he is kinda a super-asshole instead of a naive and deluded broken man. I think that depends on if Chigara felt Asaga needed her anymore - it's possible Chigara felt Sola would take over looking after Asaga (and that, due to her seemingly-chronic lack of self-confidence, she probably figured Sola would do a better job of it then Chigara could have). That in turn would have freed her up to go to Cera - plus she seemed to think Kayto had more burdens then Asaga had. Like I suggested, I almost feel that Chigara cares about Kayto so much that just being there for him would have overshadowed whether or not he'd ever returned those feelings. Yes there'd probably be some tension, but that's not the same as committing.
Yet at the same time, one could almost argue that he alternatively did something just as bad - he effectively made her a replacement for Ava and the relationship he never really got out of her (or at least that's pretty much the case if Kayto chooses to class Chigara as a mistake). And of course he'd probably realize it - it's just whether or not he'd do so before the "Liberation Day Massacre". Plus the whole "she has a crush" thing is redundant - if we're all honest, Kayto's likely known about that since shore leave in MoA, and it's probably the reason he even let her get so close to him in the first place; she was the only one he knew of who was willing to be OPEN about unconditionally loving him and not judge him.
Honestly speaking... anything outside of "get back together with Chigara" makes Kayto become an (unwitting) super-asshole either way, be it relegating her to a sister in spite of her crushing on him or taking her innocence as a par of her being a comfort-tool rebound (hell, the worst kind of assholes are the ones that don't know they're assholes - people who do bad things unwittingly because they're broken and/or naive, cause they're ultimately ones you sympathize with). And either way, it'd be something Kayto (and Chigara if she returns) would have to live with. Hence why I started this topic to begin with - to see how people think a new relationship would advance if Kayto has to live with that kind of potential guilt. |
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Post by Blackhead on Mar 14, 2016 17:04:55 GMT -8
Honestly speaking... anything outside of "get back together with Chigara" makes Kayto become an (unwitting) super-asshole either way, be it relegating her to a sister in spite of her crushing on him or taking her innocence as a par of her being a comfort-tool rebound (hell, the worst kind of assholes are the ones that don't know they're assholes - people who do bad things unwittingly because they're broken and/or naive, cause they're ultimately ones you sympathize with). And either way, it'd be something Kayto (and Chigara if she returns) would have to live with. Hence why I started this topic to begin with - to see how people think a new relationship would advance if Kayto has to live with that kind of potential guilt. I'd technically agree with the "get back together with Chigara" otherwise asshole argument, but we have to remember that the old Chigara is definitely dead. It's implied that the 'new' Chigara is not the same person anymore, she has changed significantly. I know a thing or two about writing, and I expect Chigara to kick herself out of the equation by herself. Yandere Chigara will emotionally hurt Kayto in some way (maybe kill a crew member, or do other horrendous things via prototype control) and therefore justify Shields to get in a new relationship. Kayto is going to realize that there is not much left of the sweet, shy girl he once learned to love and turn his back on her. People change, that's what causes relationships to break in real live and it's probably going to happen here too, especially because Chigara's changes came sudden and artificial. I also expect some kind of deus ex machina to bring 'old' Chigara back and rekindle their relationship, (in a route) should the player choose her over everyone else. |
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 14, 2016 17:23:02 GMT -8
I also expect some kind of deus ex machina to bring 'old' Chigara back and rekindle their relationship, (in a route) should the player choose her over everyone else. I would seriously go on strike in protest. |
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Post by Blackhead on Mar 14, 2016 17:40:02 GMT -8
I also expect some kind of deus ex machina to bring 'old' Chigara back and rekindle their relationship, (in a route) should the player choose her over everyone else. I would seriously go on strike in protest. Just finished preparing the protest signs. Give me a call when you're ready to head out Vaen. |
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 14, 2016 19:06:40 GMT -8
Pitchforks, get your pitchforks!
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. Because, contrary to what some (like I assume vaendryl) may believe, I do in fact understand the idea behind having a main character who is fallible, human and majorly screws the pooch/gets into something that really complicates how he moves forward with his life and how he interacts with others, even if I don't agree with not giving any agency to how that something plays out before or during the fact.
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