Improving negative aspects of the story (spoilers)

How? By a complete rewrite. That choke forced story was the shittiest thing i had to stomach.

And if not it, then just fck her out. Just dont show her anymore. While playing Lib Day she sucked any enjoyment i could have had. Not only because of how shitty she was written, but how Kayto was shitty written in regards to her.

Again, i always saw her as a little sister. Not as a goddamn lover! This suck especially since Kayto shows NO signs of romantic affection towards her before Lib Day! Where with Ava we can see romantic tension over past relationship, there is nothing inbetween Chigara and Kayto. And then BAM, look, you are fcking her doggy style.....

Still dont get how writter thought this was a good idea....

THere is no behind the scenes bullshit here. If both of them have feelings for eachother, you show it as a writter or give hints. None were given from Kayto. I only saw one sided affection From Chigara and every other rider, depending on how you got along with them.

Kayto however, from the start, was still into Ava, it was clearly shown, especialy with how many times you were given the chance to pursue her again. By the end off the first and second game you can detach yourself, but still you have no feelings shown to anyone else.

While Chigara has scenes and provides emotional support, not even a hint of attraction by Kayto was given. Hell, he has shown more attractions towards Asaga considering the operation Wedding Crash

Its nonsensical, non explained, and happened just because the writter obiviously needed a shock factor or some crap. The whole storyline could have easily worked with Chigara being a friend or even a little sister chracter. As a romance, which is so underdeveloped, out of the air and frankly cringey?


I liked Chigara very much. Right now, i dont ever want to see her again, i dont even want to deal with any bullshit that probably will go in the sequel about Kayto being heartbroken or something like that. You dont force a script like that.

Aye, she provided emotional support. But not as a lover. More like as a friend, or a sister. Because they can also give emotional support. There was no indication that Kayto had any romantic feelings. And MY Kayto certainly didnt because he had the hots for Asaga and should have ended up with her in the first place.

I dont get what does kickstarter have to do with it? And if something happens between that downtime, you show it, and make it so it makes sense! Because again, during 2 games, no indication of romance was given (Unless you flirt with her or pursue her, if its possible). But otherwise Kayto shows no attraction.

"Likely" - No it isnt. If it was, we would have been shown at least some indication of that. And again, assumption that he sees her as a romantic interest in that or after that scene and in no other way. Considering that everyone can flirt with who they want and pursue who they want while actually showing romantic feelings in the first two games, the Chigara romance came out of nowhere, unless you tried to end up with her.

And no, dont bullshit me about finances. Making a VN is one of the cheapest games you can make besides a gamebook. It does not require high ammounts of resources or programming. You add a sprite, you add a text. Done. They could have easily expanded all 3 games far more than they did (Especially in Lib Day). Hell, they could have even made more choises and branching paths.

If this wasnt mainly a VN, i would agree with you, but it is a VN. They could have easily expanded all of that, the writter just chose not to.

Yes, chigara was important to Kayto, Never going to argue against that. But never was it shown tha she had romantic importance to Kayto. And yes, i had a girl like that, because i was horribly bullied in school and basically had to fight back however i could. It was guess what, my cousin. And she acted in a simmilar way Chigara did, helped me through my problems.

Just because someone helps you doesnt mean you are instantly in love. Especially since there is no indication of it. Considering how he experienced the death of his sister, Kayto would see Chigara as something of a replacement for his sister. That is far more likely because we were given hints of that, instead of romance. Also, despite how fragile Kayto sometimes was, he was not aws stupid as that, to be swayed so easily.

And reborn, does not matter shit, because its NON CANON. Aka, NOT REAL. It has no significance on the story.


And no. IF you had read my posts you would have known exactly what problem i find. Because i LIKE the story. Yes. I like it, hell , i love it. I see where it was going. I see the skeleton behind it. IT is beautifull. However, its implementation is shit. It is not even an opinion. Considering how good stories are written and guidelines that are used, it is shit.

Even if i dont like something i always try to see if its good. For example, i didnt like some of ME3 scenes. Thane Dying or Mordin dying. I hated it. But those were good scenes! They were emotional! You had build up before that! You knew the characters well. I did not like the scenes, but they were good and well written (Thane is arguable a bit). I didnt like some of the endings (After update) But i still saw how they were implemented and if they were good.

Also, what does it matter whos creation it is? EVERYONE can critique and offer opinion. Even if they have not created anything in their lives. BEst movie, food, game critiques, have not created the products they are reviewing. So what? I dont need to write my own story to see that Li Day was shit. Not in how it was designed, but in how it was written.

And you dont need to read between the lines to see that i hate the writter and what he did with Lib Day. The writter did not make Sunrider bad, he made Lib Day bad. It was a sloppy and lazy job. Like i said, 50 shades of gray was written better.

And no, neither i, nor anyone else has to accept this shit. Did people accept the mass efffect endings which were crap? No they goddamn didnt.

Currently story is the weakest link of them all in this series, when it was one of its best points. And now you ignited my passion to write even more analysis threads about the games, so i thank ye. Also, i will be trying to write a sunrider fanfic, that closely follows the games, but adds on to them and completely changes the shitshow that was Lib Day, into something that has the same story, just written better.

I think they wanted to "think bigger" so to say and give a product of more quality, simmilar to like AAA titles do with good graphics. And i dont care about that either. Why?

Because they could have easily voiced only the MAIN scenes and leave others onvoiced, which many RPGS do.

I agree with you, that possibility is always there. And i would not be arguing against it if it was shown. It was not however. In the first two games it simply wasnt shown, and you have to show that. And yes, after he fcked Chigara he obiously didnt see her as sister, however i am not talking about Lib Day in this intance, i am talking before that, and at that time there was no real indication that he sees her more than a sister.

Now about Reborn. Look, this is what i dislike most about non canon stories. Again, you can say that everything that happened shows or relates to canon. But it doesnt. Again, it is a non canonical story. Nothing is real in it no matter how its written. Its the whole concept of a non canonical story.

No no no, i love both sunrider and LD, i hate the writting of LD, everything else i found really good (Besides the shit framerate). The teams really went on ham with everything besides writting. Also, i can love a franchise or a product and hate parts of it. (Star wars prequels, cough cough).

And yes, its really badly written. Main cause of this is ooc main cast, rushing and lack of content.I will explain it a bit now.

I am not pissed about the outcome or the story itself, i am pissed at its implementation. The outcome, is good, or could have been good, if it was accompanied by good writting and explanations before, the same is with the story. The skeleton of the story is good, plotpoints are clear, confclit is clear. But bad writting ruins it.

First of all, the ooc main cast.

Icari and Kryska become BFFS - too fast. We get one shower scene and now they are best friends from being rivals. The change happened unnaturally, too fast. There was not enough time or scenes to show how they changed, because before that they were always rivals.

Kayto - Becomes the biggest dumsbhit MC of a harem in the UNIVERSE. In the first two games, he was an inexperienced guy, however, he had the smarts, he had the vision. And in Lib Day he turns into an idiot who cant add 2 and 2 together. Just no...

Asaga - BEcomes yandere, jealous and psycho, for no goddamn reason. I know that this was aimed to do with the sharr inside of her. However, the lack of scenes and content and any more explanation on this (Besides a single scene), makes this change unnatural, and stupid.

Again, i will stop here, but the main gripe i have with the characters, is that many of them change, and i can see the change. But there was no indication before that something is wrong for most of them and also the lack of scenes simbolizing the change makes it seems unnatural and simply ooc out of nowhere.



And then rushing and lack of content. The scenes were far too little in between fights. In the first two games that was also a problem, but not such an obivious one because those had smaller scale changes. This time however, the writter was ambitious and started and finished many plotpoints. However, more scenes were not added, thus little time was given to all plotpoints, charcters and changes, feeling as if everything does incredibly fast.

While reading fanfictions this is the biggest indicator of an inexperienced writter and a bad story. Where everything is going too fast. Even active and action stories are detailed and ore slowly paced. But when they go at light speed its incredibly detrimental.

And of course this then ends up in the lack of content. People and characters are not explained or explored much, scenes are not satisfying and there are not enough of them.


In the end, this results in many plot holes and unanswered questions which had to be answered. The ending itself is full of plotholes that sank it. Despite it possibly being a great ending, when ramming sunrider into the enemy command ship i felt great, that scene was fcking amazing, i felt alive! But before and after that? Where it was dependant on previous writting and actions? IT all fell apart.

I woul have even been ok with the romance (With bitter taste in my mouth) if it was properly made. Now it was rushed, and, just simply stupid. Its what a 10 year old thinks romance looks like.


And aye, i can agree that i might seem arrogant. I am saying that it would be better if written like how i suggested, but others have made good suggestions too. And i would agree with those. However, basically anything will be better than what we have now, any addons. Hell if i learned how to properly mod the sunrider games, i would probably dedicate some of my time to modifying story bits or adding more things such as a codex or something like that.

Now do i believe that im a better writer. Possibly. I dont know. If the same person wrote all three games, then i seriously dont know. I am an idea generator, not the best of writters. I can generate universes, characters, ideas, plots, but writting them is not easy for me.FOr me it is easier to direct. To tell what direction is better, what choise is better. Im not a creator, im more of a fixer.

And nah im not blocked, just simply got the urge.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts.
Yes, I agree with you (Dextix), the Story was very rushed, but rushed not = bad written.
If they would had taken more time to finish LD everything have been great, even with exactly the same writter. I understand what do you wish to say, but I think the Problem isn't the writting like you think, but rather that they published LD far to early without enought Content.

So I replayed MoA and the way the forced romance turned out in LD wasn't that "forced" given the context of MoA. Or rather it was much more logical when going back to MoA and looking at the scenes carefully. Chigara clearly had a thing for the Captain and Claude was in on pushing a relationship between Chigara and the Captain. Also there were a quite a few scenes where she was "forced" on you in MoA during the period the MC chased after Ava. The way Chigara gets thrown under a bus by her BFF though was very jarring character wise.

Kryska and Icari became friends in MoA, somewhat too fast imho, but it wasn't that unexpected in LD for me.

The thing with that though is that what was shown between Kayto and Chigara STILL does not fall into it being romance territory - if anything it comes across more as a reflection of what Kayto's already done for the rest of the crew; be there for them when in need. It's not too drastically different from what Kayto did for Asaga - not as flashy as a full-on rescue, granted, but it's the same base concept of being there at someone's side even when they don't want you to; to stand by them even though you taking their burden is the last thing they want you to do. Yes, the potential for a romance to start up is at MoA's end, but it was not executed in such a way as to make the transition believable. 

For example - you've made a point to repeatedly bring up Kira and Flay from Mobile Suit Gundam:SEED, yes? But the big differences there were that:
-(A) Kira and Flay weren't talking about MARRIAGE AND KIDS in the month they were together/after a month of being together because they weren't that certain of their feelings anywhere near enough to think it was permanent (or Kira wasn't at least - Flay was full-on manipulator in the start)
- (B) Kira's falling into a relationship with Flay was mitigated a bit by his seemingly being (at least partially) aware that he did it for comfort and nursing a subconscious guilt over it that caused bumps in the road, which made it imperfect and therefore much more realistic then the picturesque way LibDay did it
- (C) it didn't make Kira blind to the issues of others or taking note of/getting close to/befriending other females like Cagalli (who he didn't know was his twin sister at the time).

Had LibDay clearly showed the two nursing or even persuading away the other's doubts that they're doing it as a comfort-release or to prove some kind of point to themselves, it would would have not been anywhere near as badly-received as it was.

Now, about that kickstarter claim of yours... I don't see the connection. It's not how much you have - it's what you do with it and the skill you have to apply it on. All the money in the world can't buy good writing or create good execution of a concept - it's what you DO with that money, the effort behind it, the care and consideration for the story you're crafting and the capacity to recognize when something doesn't work that makes the game. Besides, given the amount of time and effort that went into [RE]Turn, saying they couldn't have done that for LibDay or gone back and added it in later is kind of hard to believe for me, personally.

Yes, Icari and Kryska were "bff rivals", but they weren't quite so buddy-buddy that they were having lunch together. It was more a begrudging respect as opposed to a full-on dieheard friendship until LibDay came around - in all honesty, the lunch scene is the kind of thing I would expect to be the FINAL RESULT of their stand-off at the Liberation Day Massacre breaking down the walls between them once and for all and allowing a true friendship, not the prelude to it. The scenes on a stand-alone basis are good, but the execution and placement of them feels disjointed. All the last battle did was resolve any doubt on whether or not they could count on each-other in battle, but not any of their other issues regarding ideology and views on duty and so-forth, and reading between the lines actually hints to the OPPOSITE - that there's still some tension between them; that even though they do care about the other, they're haven't got the catalyst to make them admit it. Their stand off near the end of LibDay would be exactly that, which makes the lunch scene feel like it's too early narratively speaking. 

There's a difference between being blind and being stupid, though - not seeing someone's flaws is one thing, and disregarding the doubts of your oldest friends and not paying attention to anyone else in general when you're a ship captain with explicit duties to them is something else. The bigger thing though is that it's not the existence of a relationship that's the problem - it's that it was portrayed as a flawless one taking place in such a short time when no real catalyst for a romantic tie was seen as opposed to Chigara just returning the "stand by your side" favor Kayto's done for her and everyone else. 

With Asaga, [RE]Turn did a somewhat better job of explaining that her overuse of her "Awakening" - which she kept using over and over again in battle to try and impress Kayto, even though she was nowhere near acclimatized to the stress it put on her body and brain - caused her to progressively become emotionally unstable. It's even suggested by some fans that the "Sharr" personality never really existed - that it was just Asaga's invention so that she could have something to embody all her bad traits and keep her image of herself "pure"; her imaginary "friend" that she could put blame on for and absolve herself any and all of her wrongdoings, so to speak (like say, her brutal attack on Cosette). As time goes on though, she starts embracing those bad traits as her grip on a moral compass slips away more and more, so she sees the Sharr less and less as she starts accepting she herself is doing this of her own accord (albeit in a deranged "I'll show them all!" way). The issue is that this "Awakening-overuse = declining mental state" thing is REALLY something we should have seen in the main game (now it's alluded to if you read between the lines, where you could imply that Chigara's confrontation with Asaga in the Ryder bay is Chigara stating she stopped talking to Asaga out of fear for the latter's declining state and Asaga gets more obsessive over her Sharr power, but it's never directly stated, and it really needed to be - or at least alluded to more heavily). It's not a matter of not being told why - it's a matter of feeling like no explanation or even real hint was given at all for something that feels like it's supposed to be a main plot point.

The thing there is that we've ALREADY had Samu himself debunk the rumor that LibDay was negatively affected by costs from voice-acting - he made the choices he did of his own accord. And with all due respect, I think Dex's hate is more that he thinks Samu isn't acknowledging that he made mistakes or that he isn't acknowledging the things people criticized his story.

Come on Detix, I have spoken to you before about subjective slander on Steam and how it is not appropiate. This is a thread about the writing in the Liberation Day story and not the employees of Love in Space.

Really don't think Sam is gonna fire himself nor do I think the writing in Libday is -that- terrible. Maybe the story isn't as great as you were hoping but I've seen far worse.

You do know "I've seen far worse" doesn't make it better, right? That feels like trying to excuse it.

And, all due respect, but of course YOU don't see any problem with it - it's your waifu the Captain got with!

...

OK, OK, in all seriousness, the thing I really disagree with you on is how you think that a sexual relationship between the pair was "needed" for them to care about each-other enough for Kayto to have broken Chigara free of her spell... but the thing is; [RE]Turn kinda blew that out of the water, now didn't it? So long as two people have genuine feelings for each-other, they don't need to have sex "for the story" - they just need to reciprocate their feelings. Sex is an optional method or conclusion, not the optimum one. 

If Chigara was going to be the only person you could get with in this game, it would have made sense if Kayto showed just a little bit of indecisiveness on how far he took it - make it player-optional so that they don't feel railroaded into it even if they are from a narrative standpoint. Kayto would still love her and kiss her by the end, but could be that in one scene it's reaffirming what he did before, and in the other it's that he's confessing it openly for the first time. Anyone can make a linear story - making one that people like is what defines the difference.