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Post by ChapterSerf on Jul 22, 2017 20:14:10 GMT -8
With a public demo for Starnova going live, hopefully its full release is soon and after a break, Sunrider will be back in the spotlight. My question for you lot is, how would you want to see it handled? Would you want it in the traditional VN style of "Paths"? Such as "The Sola Path" (AKA The only path you'd ever really, truly need) or "The Icari Path"? Or would you rather see it be more like, say Mass Effect, where your interactions and choices with the characters played a bigger part with who you ultimately ended up with? Personally, I'd think the "Mass Effect" style would work better given that Sunrider really isn't your typical VN. Hell, I consider it more of a Turn-Based Tactical RPG akin to FF: Tactics or Fire Emblem than I do a Visual Novel. Though there is the problem that the characters have different max affection values. For example, Sola caps out at 9, Ava at 17 and Asaga at 21. But, when you take into account the combat and stuff, writing 8(?) different paths (Ava, Asaga, Chigara, Icari, Claude, Sola, Kryska and Cosette(?)) seems like too much. Hence why I think the Mass Effect style of purely actions and interactions makes more sense. Also, in a combat game like Sunrider, when you're on the Sola Path, how do you keep wooing Sola? Give her more kills?  |
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Post by admiralcheese on Jul 22, 2017 20:57:01 GMT -8
I'd say it's pretty unlikely to see anything for Cosette. She can die. Any time a character can die in the main part of a story means that their future importance is likely going to be VERY minimal unless the writers decided on a replacement who basically does the same thing with some differences later on.
Let Cosette live? Great you might be able to get some pirate support.
Kill her? Her successor won't give you the time of day so you don't get auxiliaries.
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Post by planguy on Jul 22, 2017 22:04:01 GMT -8
I would have liked a system like Star Ocean. Affection unlocks scenes with the girls, which are in addition to the main thrust of the narrative. Some scenes are persistent and some scenes are location and time specific, like the ship lands on a planet so the crew can get some rest and relaxation and there is a date like scene available for the girl you have the highest affection with. After a certain threshold of affection you are considered in a committed relationship with a particular girl, unlocking the lewd stuff and locking you out of a relationship with the other girls. The girl you have flagged as your significant other is given certain plot important moments in the main story. The game's epilogue describes what happens to you both after the events of the game.
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Post by Nemjen on Jul 22, 2017 22:18:01 GMT -8
... and it was all a dream for a teenage Kayto imagining what his future would be, the end.  |
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Post by admiralcheese on Jul 23, 2017 10:14:14 GMT -8
... and it was all a dream for a teenage Kayto imagining what his future would be, the end. Then that Kayto gets best girl at the Academy anyway. Yay Timelines. |
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Post by planguy on Aug 9, 2017 6:57:05 GMT -8
You joke Magpie, but any story developments that make it so that the Chigara relationship never actually happened would be welcomed by me.
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Post by kanabestgirl on Aug 9, 2017 8:05:21 GMT -8
Plz let there be a Chigara route with a happy bakery ending.  Although Sola is a perfectly fine alternative. I think I'm going to go for Sola's best ending first. Can't wait for dem time travel shenanigans. |
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Post by ChapterSerf on Aug 9, 2017 12:38:35 GMT -8
I'll be honest, I don't see VN Routes as a thing in the next Sunrider.
When you strap on the combat, it seems like it'd be too much. And maybe this is just my personal opinion talking, but I'd rather for something more dynamic and fluid like how BioWare does their Romances, where the person you end up with isn't the person you choose from a menu, but the person who you talk with the most and talk with correctly, choosing the right dialogues and so forth. And let the other ones down gently.
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Post by kanabestgirl on Aug 9, 2017 13:07:06 GMT -8
I'll be honest, I don't see VN Routes as a thing in the next Sunrider. When you strap on the combat, it seems like it'd be too much. And maybe this is just my personal opinion talking, but I'd rather for something more dynamic and fluid like how BioWare does their Romances, where the person you end up with isn't the person you choose from a menu, but the person who you talk with the most and talk with correctly, choosing the right dialogues and so forth. And let the other ones down gently. I really like that idea! Especially since we'll probably get a whole lot of "alone time" with Sola emoticon_sola_small in the next game.  |
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Post by vincent on Aug 16, 2017 3:19:34 GMT -8
Honestly, once Sunrider goes back into the spotlight. I don't want anymore real romance arcs as of now at least until the community or devs can come to an agreement on how to do them correctly. We saw how the Chigara arc ended, people were unhappy from both sides, people who liked and didn't like Chigara, then we have the Academy side of things where the arc becomes so much of the BnB of the story that it starts to take away any other elements of story, now I know Academy wasn't too story based either other than the arcs, but I feel something like that would contest the actual story for Sunrider and the installments of the series either, then there are a plethora of questions that have to be asked. - When do the arcs become too possessive of the story and then the story at hand starts to come to a halt? As much as we all love Sunrider and maybe some of us are falling off ship, we want the story to say good and end good, not lose it's spark from a slowing plot
- What impacts do these arcs have on the story at hand? Will they be purely there for optional purposes? Will they be mandatory? Because if they are mandatory or even optional, they become this trouble of asking. Letting the player choose which character arc they'd like would just seem like a hassle because let's face it. The Sunrider crew acting like an absolute dream team with no faults or disputes between the crew members seems impossible going forward, and letting you pick any character arc and one of these disputes happens causes an issue of, if said character has a dispute with another or this character is going to have a death flag raised on them sometime in the story like Chigara, but they are an optional choice of many that will mean the writer will have to write different reactions for the protag so his reaction doesn't feel off and or crew members will have to have stem points of different dialogue at different disputes in case you picked the character that is involved in the dispute or not. I love choices and all, but there's a point where the tree grows too many branches and then the story wouldn't be capable of releasing in reasonable intervals.
These are a couple questions I can think of that make the idea of future romance arcs in the canon story a bad idea, do I think they should be fully removed? No, but I do think that they should be pushed back to once the canonical plot is over and it should pull an Academy where by what Arc you picked (In this case who you sided or were the closest to) That highest number value would then trigger that said character ending.
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Post by vincent on Aug 16, 2017 3:52:08 GMT -8
You joke Magpie, but any story developments that make it so that the Chigara relationship never actually happened would be welcomed by me. +1 And expand on her character much anymore. Attempts were made, and trying to change her to the degree fans are asking such as her becoming an antagonist or a full blown Yandere just doesn't make her who her character really was anymore and it leaves the people who like d her original characterization out in the dust. |
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Post by bigfoot on Aug 16, 2017 4:54:19 GMT -8
I just want to throw out three things I would personally love to see in subsequent games and one thing I absolutely despise.
1: Let relationships fail, even part way through the story... eg:
Icari decides you arn't willing to do what's necessary halfway through the relationship, this puts strain on it and it falls apart (possibly have not doing Veresta mentioned feeding her worry)
Asaga feels guilty about something less than heroic (deliberately getting civilians killed or just has high Prince morality) and breaks off the relationship as she is looseing faith in Shields
It's much more realistic than I just rammed a moon into a PACT planet and killed 20 billion innocents, but I have 20 asaga_affection. WE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER.
2: Following from point 1: Have a few places to jump into a relationship, this would make it feel much better than a yes/no choice and perhaps let you reconsider having one as events progress. Icari is not the same character she was at the start of the game, as characters evolve then you might reconsider entering a relationship
3: The storyline really should be compatible without choosing a romance. Point 1 could feed back into this, fail a relationship and you can continue on fighting PACT, it doesn't depend on that. You don't need to have a romantic relationship to be a Captain.
Having a strong underlying storyline that doesn't rely on a single relationship will improve narrative for ALL the relationship plots and for those who don't want to let a relationship interfere with saving the universe
Importantly:
Please don't add in Mr Producer / Mr Manager to sunrider.
This isn't an MMO, the character already has a defined personality and a name. I brought Academy to support LiS before there was patreon, and that one thing (more than the tedious gameplay) annoyed the hell out of me. Even when the character has no defined name, let alone a defined personality like in a MMO and the character basically is defined by its job/title it's a barely passable crutch for writing, especially when managers or producers are numerous.
When the character has a defined name, past and personality all it does when used repeatedly is rob the character of its own definition, makes it feel generic and breaks immersion leaving you little more than a cardboard cuttout.
And really, how many people would use Mr. Manager to someone so frequently?
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Post by ChapterSerf on Aug 16, 2017 8:27:10 GMT -8
I just want to throw out three things I would personally love to see in subsequent games and one thing I absolutely despise. 1: Let relationships fail, even part way through the story... eg: Icari decides you arn't willing to do what's necessary halfway through the relationship, this puts strain on it and it falls apart (possibly have not doing Veresta mentioned feeding her worry) Asaga feels guilty about something less than heroic (deliberately getting civilians killed or just has high Prince morality) and breaks off the relationship as she is looseing faith in Shields It's much more realistic than I just rammed a moon into a PACT planet and killed 20 billion innocents, but I have 20 asaga_affection. WE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. 2: Following from point 1: Have a few places to jump into a relationship, this would make it feel much better than a yes/no choice and perhaps let you reconsider having one as events progress. Icari is not the same character she was at the start of the game, as characters evolve then you might reconsider entering a relationship Dynamic relations instead of Visual Novel "routes", right? There shouldn't be an "Icari Route" or a "Sola Route". Your actions and choices determine the girl Shields ends up with. At the same time though, I understand that we have a small dev team here (and while small dev teams can accomplish great things) I am likewise aware that their resources are indeed limited. 3: The storyline really should be compatible without choosing a romance. Point 1 could feed back into this, fail a relationship and you can continue on fighting PACT, it doesn't depend on that. You don't need to have a romantic relationship to be a Captain. Having a strong underlying storyline that doesn't rely on a single relationship will improve narrative for ALL the relationship plots and for those who don't want to let a relationship interfere with saving the universe But surely failing to score with the chosen Waifu is faaaaaaaar worse than failing to stop an ancient time-travelling warrior lord with an armada of glistening lost-tech warships and an all consuming desire to conquer the galaxy, right? In all seriousness though, I do agree. Besides: some people may want to play a Shields that has gotten extremely jaded after Chigara, and has married his duty to save the galaxy instead of a girl. Importantly: Please don't add in Mr Producer / Mr Manager to sunrider. This isn't an MMO, the character already has a defined personality and a name. I brought Academy to support LiS before there was patreon, and that one thing (more than the tedious gameplay) annoyed the hell out of me. Even when the character has no defined name, let alone a defined personality like in a MMO and the character basically is defined by its job/title it's a barely passable crutch for writing, especially when managers or producers are numerous. When the character has a defined name, past and personality all it does when used repeatedly is rob the character of its own definition, makes it feel generic and breaks immersion leaving you little more than a cardboard cuttout. And really, how many people would use Mr. Manager to someone so frequently? But we already have Shields, right? He's a fleshed out character that we happen to have some level of control over. I think? |
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Post by Sorzo on Aug 16, 2017 9:05:59 GMT -8
But surely failing to score with the chosen Waifu is faaaaaaaar worse than failing to stop an ancient time-travelling warrior lord with an armada of glistening lost-tech warships and an all consuming desire to conquer the galaxy, right?
But the Chosen Waifu IS an ancient time-traveling warrior lord with an armada of glistening lost-tech warships and an all-consuming desire to conquer the galaxy.
Or were you talking about her mean uncle?
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Post by Nemjen on Aug 16, 2017 12:47:52 GMT -8
Importantly: Please don't add in Mr Producer / Mr Manager to sunrider. This isn't an MMO, the character already has a defined personality and a name. I brought Academy to support LiS before there was patreon, and that one thing (more than the tedious gameplay) annoyed the hell out of me. Even when the character has no defined name, let alone a defined personality like in a MMO and the character basically is defined by its job/title it's a barely passable crutch for writing, especially when managers or producers are numerous. When the character has a defined name, past and personality all it does when used repeatedly is rob the character of its own definition, makes it feel generic and breaks immersion leaving you little more than a cardboard cuttout. And really, how many people would use Mr. Manager to someone so frequently? Just thought I'd add a fun fact with the Starnova Producer, originally the player was able to name the producer so we needed something generic to set as the default, this name would also be reflected in the writing so that no matter what the name the player went with the narrative still made sense. His actual name is Nishiyama-kun. |
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Post by ChapterSerf on Aug 17, 2017 11:24:56 GMT -8
But surely failing to score with the chosen Waifu is faaaaaaaar worse than failing to stop an ancient time-travelling warrior lord with an armada of glistening lost-tech warships and an all consuming desire to conquer the galaxy, right?
But the Chosen Waifu IS an ancient time-traveling warrior lord with an armada of glistening lost-tech warships and an all-consuming desire to conquer the galaxy. Or were you talking about her mean uncle? I'm referring to Crow. |
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