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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 19, 2016 14:15:38 GMT -8
Hum... maybe Sophita with one of the Sunrider's main EW specialists that has a funny accent and a stranger name...
Kidding aside, I'm not a yuri fan and most of the girls do seem to be heterosexual, so for now not much. Maybe if we had more males, or at least they survived more... (the crack idea of Admiral Grey somehow being Claude's sugar daddy still both cracks and grosses me out)
On Fontana, I'm divided. I'll probably wait until I read "Veniczar" and then I have a bigger picture of his character and what happened during the revolution.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 19, 2016 1:22:21 GMT -8
Part of the problem though is that Sunrider has always sent the player mixed signs about Shields. On one hand, on First Arrival he was more or less mr. Generic Space Captain nº685, ready to be the player's avatar. Now, in MoA he suddenly started gaining a lot of character development and, well, character. I even felt actually that the meta theme of "suppressing his feelings to the point he basically was a generic space captain" was actually fairly good, and could have been exploited even more.
Now, I think Lib Day missed an opportunity by not making Shields voiced. Everything until now was plot, but the moment you're giving a character a voice you're literally giving them a bit more of life and character; it would have been tremendously effective to make people realize that Shields was his own character, and not simply a player avatar.
In general Lib Day also lacked character development, and the love was even of the blandest possible type ("I love you" "you love me? yay! Let's open a bakery and have 3 children and a dog and..." "Will you marry me?" *Marx shots himself*), and the characters lacked chemistry because you basically took what already were the 2 blandest character types and put them together. Heck, the Captain shows more chemistry and personality when he's together with Icari joking about Kryska ("COURT MARTIAL?!") than in the entire of the romance with Chigara...
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 17, 2016 23:51:50 GMT -8
The Doddler has more or less managed to perfect the art of making Unity ports of VNs (he's making it work for Grisaia right now, and even posting technical bits on his twitter), so I thought you planned to do something similar for Sunrider: "porting" the VN parts (that aren't that complicated from the beginning) and making use of Unity's to make a good turn based system.
Ren'py's main problem is that it's so commonplace and easy to use that now is commonly associated with poorly done shovelware (specially if you use its default U.I.). One of its greatest features, the rollback (that substitutes a normal log) already worked kinda wonky before 2.0 due to having the R&D part crammed in, and it has always worked not too well with voices.
And really, we're in 2016 to have a VN with full voice acting but lacking a proper log and voice repeat features... That's the VN equivalent of limiting to only one save archive in an JRPG, really.
So I honestly think even the VN part is a little bit lacking in Ren'py in my eyes. Maybe putting some work could improve things, but honestly that work could also be put on a new engine.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 16, 2016 14:20:18 GMT -8
I actually was really curious on Divine Slice of Life, as it seemed like the kind of trainwreck I would enjoy (also, I admit, fully voice English H-scenes? man, that's a new one), but 12€ did indeed seem to much even for my "how bad it will be" curiosity, even if I kinda sorta liked the art. I must have missed that Bundle though...
On VNs, while majikoi is indeed very good and a relatively nice newbie VN, I don't know if it would be okay to jump directly from OEVNs to that? I mean, it's long, very Japanese and half the jokes are otaku references (brilliant ones, but otaku references nonetheless).
If you really want some fantasy, Fault Milestone is pretty decent. If you really want THE newbie VN, then Katawa Shoujo is always the nº1 choice. If you want some hot manly action of the yaoi kind, MangaGamer has actually released a full yaoi VN including sex scenes and plot (haven't read it myself for obvious reasons, but it sold quite a lot and has good ratings, so I suppose it's pretty good?)
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 16, 2016 13:59:29 GMT -8
See, the issue is that this is the same as saying it IS okay to lie to oneself and use or even abuse someone's feelings to you, no different then the other option. There's no more or less genuine affection (even if not sexually expressed) for any less wrong a reason (replacement sister vs replacement lover). He's no less taking advantage of her, correcting it doesn't require any more or less honesty then the other (stating he can't ever return her feelings before the fact isn't any less painful then saying so after the fact, though in the former you at least have not strung her along and taken her innocence on a pretense that was false even for yourself). He is being false and disrespectful to her either way - and in both cases he's doing it unwittingly because neither one precludes her being there for his convenience.
In BOTH cases, it doesn't mean they don't care about each-other nor require there be false love. Likewise, it means the reverse for your own point too - having the relationship under these circumstances doesn't mean it's going to be less hurtful at the end then if there hadn't been one, and getting her hopes up by directly encouraging something can still be just as bad or worse/is as much stringing her along and ultimately crushing her dreams then if you never let her get close. I just simply don't see it that way. Mostly because it's very hard for me to believe that the captain doesn't realize he's taking Chigara as a replacement of his sister, both because lust doesn't cloud his mind and because the role would be way too similar. It also is way easier to keep someone as "little sister" (as it normally requires a lot less responsibility than a girlfriend or wife would take) but also a fairly strange choice of relationship, so I really can't imagine Kayto really doing that without realizing. He has always been shown as very naive respect to love, but not dumb.
And a difference I think you're missing is that chigara doesn't want to be a replacement sister. If she was fine with either, I would agree they would be a lot more similar, but she doesn't want that. Simply being friends with her would hurt her all the time and in the end she would get nothing in both cases. With a romantic relationship, they've at least tried, and then he realized it couldn't work because he loved her for the wrong reasons. That's to me a lot more genuine and respectful that the scenario you're suggesting; the pretense wouldn't be false in any moment, and her innocence would be lost in the same way any girl loses theirs in a first relationship that lasts less than a year.
All in all, however, I think we're derailing the thread on what seems to be a conflict more of ideas and feelings that facts. Feel free to answer, just know that I probably will stop here.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 16, 2016 3:18:53 GMT -8
At the same time, you can argue the opposite; seeking that love but later realizing you're wrong can not only be equally as bad but even kinda crueler - you're taking someone's dreams, pure hopes and even their innocence as a woman just to satisfy your own need for comfort, and by the time you realize it you've arguably done more damage then if you'd just kept her at arm's length. You can give back a lot of things - a girl's first time isn't one of them, though. How exactly IS that any better? In my eyes... it's not. Like you said, love does often entail the kind of selfishness that makes one an asshole in someone else's eyes, and that doesn't really lessen just because a different path got taken. In BOTH cases you're somewhat lying to yourself, as well as causing damage that can last for years. Both cases have chances for making amends and asking forgiveness (sorry I did that to you/sorry I didn't try to make it work) and neither really require you lie longer then the other - the difference between feeling "maybe there could have been something and I'm sorry I didn't try" and "it was a hurtful mistake and I shouldn't have done it"; regret for what you did do or regret for not trying, it's still regret. Neither is really easier to try and make amends to - and both imply a significant hurdle to try and overcome in regards to trusting anyone else. I don't see it that way. I suppose part of it are personal views; even how you put it I prefer "seeking comfort in love" than the other option by leagues. Mostly because I feel that, while a mistake, in this case I feel that there's a genuine affection, just for the wrong reasons. And while correcting it is painful, the entire process is honest in itself and even respectful; he leaves her because he knows he can't love her like she wants and because doing that while knowing his love is purely for comfort would be taking advantage of her. In the case of "friends in which I know she clearly has a crush on me" i see it as taking advantage from moment 0: If Shields comes ahead and says "I don't love you, sorry" and then she want to keep insisting, well, I see it a lot better. But in the case he just strings her along then he clearly is being false and disrespectful to her dear friend (which is something that happens a lot of times too), specially when she is there only for his convenience. In the former case it's a mistake, but that does not mean the "love" shared was false. Those months/weeks/whatever won't be a lie; now, continuing that relationship would be a lie. And well, how does crushing a woman's dream count as a problem when you will be doing it anyway (because having her as a friend but not saying anything is not keeping her hopes up, sure)? Love is kinda assholish, but that goes both ways too; simply not having a relationship does not mean the same doesn't apply.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 15, 2016 14:19:21 GMT -8
There are actually tons of problems I have with your argumentation here, and I planned to kick a giant post where I elaborate on this whole matter in extreme detail. To be honest though, I don't really see the 'clusterfuck' route happening regardless. But should the day come and it appears that this indeed becomes a possibility, I will make that ominous post, and we will have a conversation! It's just not worth your or my time as of now, too much speculation and only hints. Consider this topic droped/on ice from my side for the moment. I hope you're cool with that. Not a problem, we're cool
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 15, 2016 0:51:12 GMT -8
I don't know, I feel the kind of assholes that have been assholes without fully realizing it are precisely the ones with most development, because they can realize those mistakes and try to not make them again.
And the fact, that, well, love is kinda assholish. You love someone? Most of the times it can have 0 relation with how good has someone been to you or if it's deserved or whatever. And sometimes it can go just as quickly as people change (and it's clear that the Captain at the end of Lib Day has changed, even withholding Chigara's change).
Keeping someone as a friend that you know loves you but can't renounce to it because you need its comfort is in my eyes worse than making a mistake and seeking comfort through love but later realizing you were wrong. In the second case you can try to make amends and ask for forgiveness, but now you're being honest. In the first you're lying to yourself and her for what can be years.
So I see making this kind of mistake as certainly the most dramatic, but also the one with brighter prospects for both the future and character development.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 15, 2016 0:36:49 GMT -8
I probably am, the frustration from Liberation Day definitely bleeds over into 2.00. But when I write and articulate critiques, I almost never say positive things. It's always things that could be improved along with ways to improve them. I keep trying to do that, but its pretty hard for me. Agreed, the Fontana-Kushana scene had a decent amount of information. Though, I get the feeling that I already knew that, drew conclusions based on previous conversations between Alice and Alpha (Those two get mixed up in my head, Alpha feels more like and Alice and visa versa). I understand that not everyone might have realized it. Also agreed that the Sunrider Crew reunites had some good emotional payoff, with both the hug and the scene where Ava asks for forgiveness. Since we are still giving feedback, the extra choices in 2.00 actually worry me. Part of the reason I felt so dissatisfaction with Liberation Day was the shift from what felt like a Route Based game to a Kinetic Novel. I understand WHY it happened, cutting down on the choices and divergences so we can actually have a coherent and dramatic story, but it was still very frustrating. However, with the 2.00 update we again got a lot of choices for the amount of dialog. This is... worrying to me. Once burned Twice shy as the saying goes. While I admit this is what I want, I don't want another Liberation Day where we have to attempt to re conciliate all the possible choices a player might have made and end up with a story that satisfies no one. I would much rather be locked into a single, kinetic route with maybe two different states based on whether Kayto is Idealistic vs Pragmatic, then have a good story with the rising action, pacing and tension I crave. While I definitely want Kayto to hook up with Ava, I don't want it to the detriment of the story. Like in Muv LuvAlternative, while Meiya might be my favorite heroine, I recognize and accept the necessity of Sumika's relationship. Don't worry, I understand. On the Fontana-Kushana conversation, I think the important part is that it confirms Fotana's origin and Arcadius' end; while there was an idea before, the confirmation is worse than I thought and kinda makes Alice more understandable (I mean, I for example thought that Arcadius was killed by an internal rival for Compact's leadership, but being killed by the same mob you've lead until now while trying to protect the Emperor is infinitely worse). That together with giving a very nice view of how will the PACT-Alliance will unfold makes it an overall nice scene. On choices... I actually share a bit of that worry. For now however I'm more calm due to 2 things: First is how quick 2.0 was ready (6 days, but they actually decided to make it 1 day after release); even if you work non-stop it's almost impossible to have that kind of content ready if you have nothing (specially as you need art and the 3D backgrounds). So I'm pretty sure Samu-kun actually has a decent storyboard done already; probably with scenes and what "will be done" in each. And second is how Samu-kun has told us he faces each game as an "anime season"; I could very well see a shift from a mostly linear game to a multi-route one (basically, the inverse process of that from Unlimited to Alternative). And sincerely, that with how frustrating Lib day's writing was 80% of the time I think Samu-kun is probably genuinely better at having choices than at making a kinetic novel.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 15, 2016 0:20:25 GMT -8
Oh boy, Marx. Normally I find myself agreeing with you on most subjects, but this threesome bullcrap is no bueno. I talked about circle jerking before, and this is exactly what I meant. If there will be no individual Kryska or Icari route so be it, this shouldn't justify what I'd call 'the fanservice/clusterfuck route.' Just think ahead for two seconds and imagine how this plays out from a story perspective: Kayto ditches all other girls (who have serious romantic feelings for him (Asaga), he has history with (Ava)) just to have a crazy sex orgy with characters, who appear to have SERIOUS, twisted complexes and issues, all this during an intergalactic war. He'd become the biggest, fucking joke ever. A childish and pathetic starship Captain, who has no controll over himself whatsoever. Kayto had a hard time, he should at least retain an ounce of dignity. No matter how hard you tried to implement that, the conversations/interactions would always feel laughable, awkward and cringeworthy. The whole premise is retarded on multiple levels and compulsorily leads to horrible characterization. You think a love triangle is terrible? Take a love triangle and remove the arrows and you get this crap - so basically the middle part of Lib. Day in even worse. All involved characters can only lose, the story suffers, the only winner is someone who enjoys the extra explicit content. Typically someone who doesn't give a shit about the said characters and their portrayal anyway. I'll just say that I've read more than one case where they took that kind of route seriously with all of its serious implications (loving 2 people at the same time and figuring how to face that love against society's standard) and they execute it fairly well, so I can assure you I at least am thinking of something very different and clearly not an "orgy route". Your lack of faith is understandable though, specially if we get little time to develop it. (Also, I personally think love triangles are awesome; just very hard to do well without falling into old cliches and stupidity) Finally; most people who enjoy extra explicit point of one character in particular is because they care about that character. If they didn't care they would have enough with any kind of explicit content. People don't spend over 20$ in something they don't care when you have all the free Porn in the internet.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 14:39:49 GMT -8
What killed Mass effect 3 was having 2 years to work on the final game while stocking Mass Effect 2 full of DLC that were mostly things that they didn't have time to put in the game (and later releasing that complete package as PS3 port 1 year before ME3) precisely because 2 years of development are simply not enough for a good and long story AAA game.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 14:24:04 GMT -8
Vaen, what about all the times I complained about it being bugged...
And I will add my support for this. Specially if we can add Alliance and PACT ships as allies and set them as enemies. Really, the battle system is as polishes as it will probably ever be, so being able to design your own levels would be very cool. While I would probably agree to pay it as DLC, I don't think it would have much success, so as a free update it would be the best. Now, we know, busy/LibDay was a flop and we can't do such things willfully/etc, so in my case feel free to take it easy. I mean, we waited 6 months for 7.2...
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 14:00:08 GMT -8
I can honestly tell I said it both as a joke and as truth; if we have to face the dread of two best girls being unavailable, then I want to at least be part of that!
And "freaking substitution dick"? Nay! Do you think of the ham in a sandwich as "substitution bread"? A sandwich is 2 slices of bread and a filling! The moment it doesn't have one of the components it falls apart, it stops being a sandwich! Long Live Sandwiches!
Of course, for the kinkier of our group, I never specified what kind of toppings can the sandwich have.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 13:53:38 GMT -8
That's just it - it's not as a best friend but as a big brother. You're telling me that if this had been Maray, Kayto wouldn't help her with her kids, open a business and live with her if she needed help, or even just offering to help as a matter of course as family? This is again why it feels like you and vaen are saying "sister is lesser then girlfriend because no sex!" The fact of the matter is I don't think that nature would in fact actually change - just the manner in which it's expressed. I feel the two are distinct; brothers and sisters help each other, but are supposed to take different paths. Of course, this can fully depend on your subjective implication of what does a brother/sister mean, and I don't think derailing this thread to that is on topic, but I believe there's a very different implication between "starting a family" and "being a family" (here, I can even point to the fact that the Captain was so focused on the first to rebuild his lost blood family, that he forgot that he already had the second; the Sunrider) Here the idea is the two starting on a common point after the war: would Chigara if Kayto was "only" his big brother go live to Cera (which she doesn't know or has ever been) or would she plan to go with her best friend (with which she has already fled together once and knows from before) to a Ryuvia she already knows and has lived before? If she really wished to be with his "brother" so much to do that, then I feel some implications would unavoidably slip by, even with a fully platonic relation. Specially with Chigara's characterization until that point. Would it mean so much not having sex at this point? And, well, on the Captain's part it could work, but then I think even he would probably recognize she has made Chigara a replacement for Maray. And that she kinda has a crush on him. So he is kinda a super-asshole instead of a naive and deluded broken man.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 2:11:22 GMT -8
I think this update basically boils down to a failure in execution. There are a ton of decent ideas locked up in 2.00. Its just very hard to get around how absurd those ideas come across and how the lead up to their presentation was bad. I think you're being a tad harsh. I agree, the execution was fairly bad (though I expected it given how rushed it was), but at the same time this are the kind of mistakes that are done countless times on almost every production. I think the Fontana-Kushana dialogue it's a good way to show it: yes, it's the dreaded "You-know-this-already" mixed with long speeches instead of actual dialogue, but at the same time the information it gives it's actually extremely necessary and does so much (At least to those who haven't read Veniczar) in a very little number of lines. The "hug" scene was similar; the emotional payoff is strong enough to slip by the awkward forms. It's why I think 2.00 has in general been received so positively. I mean, I never would write it like that, and if he has time Samu-kun should seriously polish those parts and dialogue. But at the same time, well, prose has never been a strong point of Sunrider and the dialogue has always been kind of unpolished, so it's never been a terrible hurdle. I actually have more problems with the horrible pacing and flow of Liberation day in general.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 1:08:14 GMT -8
I think you might be reading something in my post that I did not intend, I am not attacking the unit itself but more musing that Vaen has developed his emotional response to Sophita based on them (eg. Mining Union services). And I would too develop a romantic rapport with her if that was at the stake. Do you know what I would give for Sophitia to sell me rockets at a cheaper price...? We're talking about them emoticon_rocket_small emoticon_rocket_small emoticon_rocket_small !! I was even disposed to sell my soul to the Alliance for one Machiaveli in MoA! (now they're nerfed, so it would have to be an Alliance Carrier and a wing of Alliance Ryders)
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 1:02:09 GMT -8
The thing is, would Chigara and the Captain not having sex completely change their dynamic as a couple? I think part of the problem is that the key word in their relationship is "family". And it's very clear that this family refers to one they're making themselves, it's not the Sunrider's crew. This is the main distinction and what makes so very difficult to simply change that nature; you don't open a bakery, share home and adopt children with your bf. And renouncing to that, is well, renouncing to everything Chigara hoped for; her bakery, her 3/4 children, her dog, etc.
I agree with everything on your spoiler; one of the best part about this development is that it actually allows Chigara's future route to have a lot more depth and darkness to it, something that as seen until now was completely lacking on their relationship.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 0:31:07 GMT -8
You know, I am under the impression she is your favourite because she lends you her employee discount on Mining Union products. You must be seeing something in the Mining Union Frigates that the rest of us don't. I'm sorry, but as a former non-believer I can assure the Mining Union Frigates are great. Like, I would exchange 2 Ceran gunboats to be able to have 4 again. On the waifu wars, as Kryska is growing stronger I'm doubting whether to shift my vote to Ghost Maray. The poor girl doesn't even have one vote, and she's definitively good enough.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 13:09:27 GMT -8
I find it funny that some people are already voting on Kuushana. Aye she is impressive, but if anything I'd like to entertain the idea of a 'nega-harem'. Kayto already has so many girls, enough that Fontana has realized that the best way to compete is to gather a harem for himself. In the end it shall be an epic battle of two assault carriers, each with a full squadron of waifu-mecha-pilots. This is what the scrolls have foretold... Side-story Fabrider: Glitter of the stars : Instead of a SRPG make it a Grand strategy game controlling PACT fighting for the Neutral Rim. I would play that sooooo much...
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 12:57:10 GMT -8
To clarify, it's probably the WAY they were EXECUTED that got received as being asspulls, not the things themselves. Lots of things can feel like an asspull if you fail at executing the implementation. ... You know, it may be surprising, but I actually agree. Alpha's conversation with Claude itself wasn't very strange, but the way Sola revealed it really felt pretty asspullish.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 10:03:20 GMT -8
Icari Good End: Cat Cafe. I like this idea so much more than just a bakery (or many bakeries) with Chigara. The question is... Would Icari be one of the cats too...?
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 4:15:00 GMT -8
Seriously?? You wanna argue about obvious? You know that those alternative realities were different than his original timeline, right? How do you want him to act in same way as in original timeline, when situations are different? The biggest concern is issue of not encountering same girls (some of them were not alive in certain timelines). Another issue is the problem that those characters dont act same way in alternative reality and therefore they are not same person. If you wanna judge EVERY SINGLE alternative reality only based on your memories from your first timeline, then you are asking for nasty surprise. I think you should watch/play some series and games that focus on the problem of time travel, time loop and alternative realities. You lack necessary knowledge. (start with something easy, like movie Butterfly Effect)anyway, MuvLuv with alternative realities is much different than Sunrider. Its not a good comparison. MuvLuv aside: dont get me wrong, I am not saying that multiple sexual/romance encounters are bad. But it has to be done in right tone. Not the serious stuff in Liberation Day with shouting and screaming and at the end with serious confession "I just tried to be happy" or whatever he said to Asaga. Can you imagine similarly serious romance with each character?? Falling so easily in love will make Kayto look cheap (if it was a girl, we would be talking about her being a slut) ... I just want to say, it's really rude to presume "I lack the necessary knowledge" just because I disagree with you. I think I've actually read far more about alternative realities and time travel than you think. And addressing how "different" the people on the alternative realities really are is a plot point of Alternative and Unlimited, so I'm not going to comment any more (hint: Casualty Conductor effects), specially when it's Takeru himself that identifies Alternative's Sumika with the one in Extra despite the other begging for him to not do it (and says his famous line "no matter which reality, I will always fall in love with Sumika"). I even went out of my way to tell you it's not even my own opinion, bur rather how the game presents it. And yeah, on your last paragraph, I completely disagree. It's extremely normal for people to fall horribly in love and plan their live for the next 20 years, then break up in the following 3 months and begin the cycle once again. And I think that calling women like that as slut is probably one of the biggest problems of this current society. I think neither of us want to really follow up on this, so let's just be said we disagree.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 3:40:30 GMT -8
I always got the impression the reason why the Captain went for Chigara is that she literally sneaked in his heart, in a moment where his closest connection (Ava) basically gave up on their relationship. Yes, Asaga could have worked, but Asaga was in his "I want my bf to be happy" mode, and so the only one being actually forward was Chigara and Claude, but she is out for obvious reasons as much as I like her. As Somasam said, the captain was a wreck; Ongess just rekindled the flame of his doubt, his failure. Until that moment he simply had been so busy trying to survive that he didn't have the time to question what he was doing; either letting the slavers free or killing the diplomats the Captain can't stay to really be hit for the consequences of it, and in both cases he had pressing matters and 3rd parties to blame. Now, on Ongess is when he is fully hit by something that is purely his fault; all the dead people (including the little girl) were killed simply because he had chosen to visit the surface with Kryska and later chosen to talk to a little girl. Purely his negligence. His later failure against Fontana is another punch; he is repulsed by the Admiral's methods, but begins to ask himself if that really is the only way. If he simply can't do better. Was he such a failure? Maray. Was he negligent? Maray. Could he have done something to improve it? Maray Could have he tried to save someone? Maray Maray Maray Maray Maray was basically the proof of his failure as a brother, a captain and person. Realizing that in fact nothing had changed since Cera, that he was still a failure that couldn't save anyone make him fall into depression and become a living wreck. He tried to overcome it with the Legion, but that didn't go so well; either he realized at the last moment that he was making a mistake, or he put the life of his dear love in grave danger for his own personal revenge. Realizing that, in any of the both cases, he had (in his mind) failed Ava too, he simply chose to try to do the same thing as her and forget about their relationship. And what better way to just forget, about failing his entire family, about failing his little sister and about failing Ava that go into the arms of the only person who has always been trying to comfort you, who loves you entirely and accepts everything about you? What changes after the ending, is that the captain has actually finally got the redemption he was seeking. In his (supposed) final act ramming the Paradox Core Battleship he saved Cera, and even made peace with his sister's death. He realized he could actually save people, but also that other people loved him too. Ava finally admitted that, yes, she remembered, and yes, it was a wonderful dream. Asaga, Sola and Icari swore to protect him; Kryska of all people changed sides. He was loved too, and he didn't really need to fabricate a family, or open a bakery or have someone love him unconditionally. He has his crew, even if his ship is no longer. Now, he can actually think: did he really love Chigara unconditionally? or did he simply dove into her arms because it was the coziest, the easiest way to mend his heart and not break down? did he really want a bakery and a family with her, or was he simply trying to replace his lost home with another one hastily build? Now, he is no longer breaking down over guilt and failure, and has realized he has a home, so he can actually think about this. I fully expect this conflict to take a central part (while the options in 2.00 were not bad, they as if the Captain made up his mind a tad too quick), specially when Chigara returns.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 3:07:51 GMT -8
But I'm talking about Alternative, not Unlimited. There, Takeru has all the choices and memories of both Unlimited and Extra. Unless you're arguing about choosing Sumika only for plot relevance (which would open a can of worms and I don't really want to go that way), what Takeru does is ignore all his previous memories (including the one of choosing Meiya in Extra) and loves to make a new choice. Yeah, it's cozier because it's an alternative reality, but not only is his final loop, he also has all his memories. It's not about "choosing something different", but about "true love" (taking the motto of the game).
Now, that's not to say I don't have problems with that (I have), but it has been done, it was a tremendous success and I could understand Sunrider trying to go for something similar and integrating multiple loves in one play.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 3:01:17 GMT -8
((Just in case people really thought I'm that stupid; saying that 2 lesbians are "gay" is a 4chanism intended to add a light-hearted, joking/mocking tone to the phrase))
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 2:51:50 GMT -8
TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE COMPARISON. MuvLuv Alternative's story revolves around TIME LOOP and ALTERNATIVE REALITIES! Long story short: if you lived your life 100 times would you always end with apple? Or would you want to try different approach and eat pears or oranges as well? duh Dude... we're talking about love, not about dinner. I should be the one saying "duh". If you really think that you should have gone with another girl, then it's no longer matter about simply reliving your life and taking another girl, is that you probably should break up and go with another girl. You're clearly not in love with your current one. Live is not a "one-use love"; what you argue about time-loops you can simply change for periods of time and it's the same. Which is the difference between 1 loop of one year and 1 year if you conserve your memories? Time loops or alternative realities have nothing to do with it, they are simply cozier because they avoid the ugly parts, but the core matter is the same; you have memories of being with a lot of different girls and even being in love with them, but later chose another because you're more in love with this one. It's as simple as that. I can understand finding it awkward, or problematic, or whatever, but it has been done and it has been done well. And for now we don't know if Sunrider will do it well or horribly or simply meh because it still hasn't finished.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 2:41:37 GMT -8
My support is for the blue-haired one. Normally I'd be torn between Ava and Sola, but both and Asaga seem to be fine, and I want to add force to the "If Kryska and Icari must be gay then I want to be the filling in that sandwich" (I want my individual routes too, but I can probably be assuaged with that kind of direction).
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 2:32:03 GMT -8
My kudos for being brave and trying space whale mode. It's really challenging, but Drath and others seemed to somehow manage well, so I think that (after much suffering) you will survive.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 2:03:22 GMT -8
While I didn't mind much the exposition given just how much desperately it was needed (like, we knew nothing of Alice and real Arcadius if we hadn't read Veniczar), it's true that in general it was done very clumsily, the same with the characters seeming to speak more in long speeches instead of dialogues.
And I still don't know how you can tell as asspulls things that were predicted and fairly agreed on before 2.00, but as it seems more than one person seems to have had that problem before I'll stop.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 13, 2016 1:51:48 GMT -8
Likewise, I'm stating the opinion shared by a lot of the people who bought it - out of the current story-content, forced romance was a problem that matched the severity of the issues people had with the ending. Hell, I think one other poster here said it was actually a BIGGER issue then the ending was. There's no one arguing on you on this; an important part of the fanbase does indeed have that opinion. However, what you can't do is simply tell all the people that don't agree with that "you are missing my point" or "you are contradicting yourself". In all cases, having arguments over this is useless until we have all the parts and then we can argue if it was done well or not. If you want to press Samu-kun to take your choice then a poll or another thread is the way, not continuing here. Oh, and Alternative had the MC have a forced relationship with a girl despite having all the memories of having relationships with basically every other girl (and he also had the memories of Extra, where Sumika had been). I don't see how it's simply not relevant; even if the others didn't remember, he clearly did. Samu-kun has gone out of his way more than once to state that Alternative was a very big influence too.
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