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Post by truebeliever on Jun 1, 2016 10:08:42 GMT -8
I think it's a good idea to look at yourself in a mirror once in a while. And also equally good to try not to just blame the mirror if it doesn't show you the image you want. Well said, sweetlove, and it's a course of action I would recommend to a number of posters in this thread. If you are determined to see tokenism where none exists, then I dare say you will find it. We certainly do seem to be at an impasse as far as reasonable discourse goes.
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Post by truebeliever on Jun 1, 2016 9:36:29 GMT -8
It seems that in your crusade for Social Justice you forgot how to read. Right back at you, Dextix. I have made abundantly clear that this is not a crusade for social justice but a suggestion that the developers are free to take or leave. Unlike you, I do not throw tantrums or threaten boycotts when I do not get my way. Nobody is calling you a racist, but honestly, your self-defensiveness is starting to make me wonder. I think you and I could agree that if I were to label you as a racist that that would be an example of my putting words in your mouth in an attempt at character assassination and that it would be wrong. Since we can agree on that, and since I have not done that, I will thank you to extend the same courtesy to me. Well, that's absolutely true. I'm certainly not going to argue with that. However, I disagree that this is tokenism; it is rather a reflection of reality. If Sunrider were somehow made up of an all-male cast, and I said, "You know, this is weird. Where are the women?" this would not indicate a failure on my part to see the males for the human beings they are and to be obsessed with sex. And if LiS were to then put women into the game, this would not be any sort of truckling to social justice warriors, but rather represent an improvement of the game. I mean, I don't know about you, but I like having waifus in Sunrider. I am glad we can agree on this point.
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Post by truebeliever on Jun 1, 2016 7:13:36 GMT -8
Um... you know that Icari is Asian, right? It is not obvious, but she is anime-asian. Long dark hair. Flesh colored skin instead of milk-white. Wields katana. Basically a ninja, whether in or out of her Ryder... EDIT: Next politically correct abortion of a topic will be, "Why is Icari so stereotypically Asian?" :/ I do not see sense and not relevance to a discussion of these ... Recalling that Chigara is not human, Icari is Asian and God is a woman (Claude. ). Yes, I do know that she's Asian. I wrote in the OP: "Sunrider does considerably better than Master of Orion on this front; it presents a racially mixed humanity where women can hold their own with men." No one is claiming that Sunrider is populated solely by white people. No, what you are asking IS tokenism. "Please include a black character just because he is black" This kind of thought creates token characters. I am not opposed to having a more diverse cast in sunrider universe, but the choise has to depend on more than "Oh, we need a black person just because he is black" Your whole premise for this blatant tokenism is that the universe is like ours. When it is completely wrong. Because then PACT and even Ryuvian empire would not exist as our earth knows how shitty those ruling systems are. As sweetlove has pointed out, this is the relevant passage: "If humanity's spread to the stars, then you'd expect to see all of humanity, and if you don't, then you'd wonder why." A lot of the people on this thread seem to be laboring under the misunderstanding that this is some sort of social justice screed and not the suggestion to correct an oddity in continuity that it is. Hypothetically, if Chigara had fired a six shot revolver at the end of Liberation Day and somehow fired seven shots without explanation, that would be odd. That would be worth raising as maybe something that needs explanation or elaboration going forward. As I said, the times being what they are, this topic is fraught with emotion -- and perhaps that's why a number of people on this thread seem to be reading things I'm not writing -- but the fact is that this is exactly the same sort of thing. If you were to go to a session of the United Nations and not see a single black person, I'd say you'd probably think that was odd if you were a halfway observant person. In fact, it would be odd if you didn't think it was odd. As for tokenism, I wrote this in the OP: "Once again, I'm not asking for tokenism. Kayto's harem is already full to bursting, for example, so I'm totally fine with not having a black heroine show up." Really, I don't see how I could possibly be any clearer than this. And as for PACT and the Ryuvian empire not existing in our world, I guess you're not aware that there were Communist revolutions and hereditary empires in our history, which PACT and Ryuvia were based on. Sunrider did not spring fully formed from Samu's head, but is clearly based on our history. That's why the Alliance has ships named "Machiavelli," for example. If you're fine with accepting those carry-overs, yet argue that Sunrider is completely divorced from Earth history, and that's why there are no black people, then I really wonder if you realize what you're writing. Yes. It's <getCurrentYear>, and we need to check our privilege. /sarcasm No one is suggesting you check anything, and if you think someone is, then perhaps that's simply your ethnic guilt talking. A lot of the replies to this thread have been full of a lot of grumbling about rampant PC this and check our privilege that, attempting to address things I never said or that are simply not true -- and yet no one has elaborated on why they think the suggestion itself is bad. If you have concrete reasons as to why it would be a bad thing to have black people appear in Sunrider -- note yet again that I am absolutely not asking for a token black heroine -- then by all means, feel free to elaborate on why that is.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 23:49:25 GMT -8
Huh, how about that. As I said, I think Kayto's harem is already plenty big, but far be it from me to say no to more waifus.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 22:42:44 GMT -8
in be4 new liberty pilot is a purple genderfluid otherkin. Ha, no worries: It's a non-canon ending.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 21:57:47 GMT -8
I... am honestly not sure whether you are actually sincere or just trolling me here. But by the benefit of doubt, here I go: So here is the core point of your request/argument. This, and one other sentence to actually state what you want is all you need. The rest? Is basically an unwarranted rant based on what you think should be, arguing against people and arguments that don't even exist. And suddenly, this request has turned into a bloody essay. To top it off comes your little recollection, and basically a post that reads like "I am bothered by this but not that bothered by it. Oh this is a problem, but not that big of a problem," as if you're somehow afraid of offending us, or as if you're dealing with children. Or both. The end result is basically "How to be Patronising 101". As a matter of fact, I'm being quite sincere, and I'm not trolling you. Unfortunately, we're dealing with plain text, and nuances of tone tend to get lost. So, for example, my previous post was not intended to say, "Oh this is a problem, but not that big of a problem," nor was it intended to come across as condescending, and I promise you that I am not afraid of offending anyone. My point was that I was making a suggestion with this thread, and it was intended in that spirit. If that didn't come through and instead gave the impression you took, then I suppose that comes down to my inadequacy as a writer. To put it another way, if I have a hypothetical friend, and I realize something that might improve his life, then I will offer that notion as a suggestion, which is his to take or leave. Obviously, LiS and I are not friends, but I definitely feel friendly toward them and respect them as creative people. So I'm certainly not going to try to dictate to them or threaten them in any way; that would hardly be friendly. If that gives the impression of timidity or indifference on my part, then let me say that nothing could be further from the truth. If I understand what you're saying, your objection is not to my suggestion, but to the way it was made -- that my original post was too long and too full of what you consider irrelevancies. Well, that's fair enough. As I said, it's entirely possible that the things that irritate you stem from my poor writing ability, and again, I assure you that any offense was completely unintentional.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -8
Fair enough, MagnificentBeard. Incidentally, this is probably as good a time as any to reiterate that I am absolutely not accusing LiS of being terrible people for not having black people in the game. That is the furthest thing from my mind. I realize there is a lot of wariness about nutjobs coming in and demanding this or that change in the game and threatening a boycott if they don't get their way -- that's not me. If you check out the thread "It should be possible to spoiler spoiler," you'll see that I've argued that I think a writer owes fans only one thing, and that's an honest job. This thread, as titled, is a suggestion. If LiS says, "Pshh, whatever," that's their business; they're totally free to do that.
I don't really understand what you're getting at here, sweetlove, but I figured I'd already done that by making this thread? You're more than welcome to expand on why you think it might be a bad idea; you might even convince LiS of the same.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 19:52:20 GMT -8
It's a game, not reality. Fiction does not exist in isolation but reflects and refracts reality. In fact, that's the tagline of the Sunrider series: "This story takes place as we live today, in a universe reminiscent but vastly different from our own." Now you may argue "It's vastly different in the sense that there are no black people in the universe," and that's fine, but let's make that clear. Incidentally, as you can see from the posts on this board, a number of people were quite upset that [RE]turn's endings weren't canon. So yes, it's a game, not reality -- but that doesn't mean people don't care about it, and it doesn't diminish the value of their feelings. There's people with purple and light blue hair. If that's not racial diversity, I don't know what is. I absolutely agree; in fact, I wrote, "[Sunrider] presents a racially mixed humanity where women can hold their own with men." But for all that there's people with purple and light blue hair, there aren't any people with dark faces. What purpose would this even serve narratively? You're trying to frame it as if it isn't a PC issue but it's pretty clear that's exactly the case, and frankly, I find that attitude rather patronising even if I'm not the actual author. The narrative purpose would be narrative immersion and believability, as I wrote in my post: "If humanity's spread to the stars, then you'd expect to see all of humanity, and if you don't, then you'd wonder why." I do apologize if you find my attitude patronizing. That's certainly not my intention, particularly since you are not the actual author.
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Post by truebeliever on May 31, 2016 16:25:27 GMT -8
Back in the day, I played a PC game called Master of Orion that I enjoyed a great deal. It featured humans and other races trying to build empires in the galaxy. The humans were, amusingly enough, all white men. All the soldiers were white men. The human diplomat was a white man. The scientist was a white man. There were, in fact, no women or non-whites depicted anywhere in the game, and my non-white friends and I used to joke that they must have been wiped out by the time that future rolled around, and humanity was clearly relying on cloning to reproduce.
We were just kidding, of course. We didn't think that depiction of future humanity was some sort of indication of racism or sexism on the part of the game's developers, Simtex, but we did think it showed a blind spot on their part. (In fairness, they did somewhat better with the sequel, in which there was one black man and one white woman who could be hired as heroes, although there weren't any Asians that I remember.) Nobody wanted tokenism or a representative of every ethnic demographic a la Power Rangers. We just thought it would have been nice to show humanity as being more than just bald white men and white-haired white men and brown-haired white men. To my mind, that's natural. When you talk about "humanity," if you consider yourself human, you like to see someone who looks like you included in that label. I'm Asian, for example, and I'm not going to lie; I thought it was pretty cool back in the day that Mr. Sulu was helming the Enterprise.
Remembering this the other day made me think of Sunrider, which takes place in a universe much like our own, in which humanity has spread to the stars. Sunrider does considerably better than Master of Orion on this front; it presents a racially mixed humanity where women can hold their own with men. And yet it occurs to me that I've never seen a black person in Sunrider.
The nature of the times we live in makes this sort of topic taboo and fraught with emotion. So let me make clear that I am not accusing Sunrider's developers of any sort of bias; in fact, let me be clearer. I absolutely do not believe they are biased in any way. I simply think that this was an innocent oversight on their part.
I also want to point out that I don't believe this is a matter of political correctness, but rather one of believability. If humanity's spread to the stars, then you'd expect to see all of humanity, and if you don't, then you'd wonder why. Maybe there's some reason why we haven't seen any black people to date. Maybe future humanity tends to segregate itself ethnically; maybe the New Empire killed off all the black people in a pogrom. The point is, if there aren't any black people in this universe, then it'd be good if LiS explained why, and if there are black people, it'd be nice to see them from time to time.
Now some people might say, well, how do you know there aren't any black people in the Sunrider universe? Maybe the majority of the ship's crew is black, for all you know. Well, that's my point, really: We never see them, so we wouldn't know, would we?
And to forestall any would-be anime history revisionists who might try to claim that Sunrider is based on anime and that anime rarely depicts blacks, rarely isn't never. Macross had the lovely Claudia LaSalle; Legend of Galactic Heroes had the loyal Louis Mashengo. Even Evangelion, which mostly took place in Japan, had a black sailor on that UN carrier during that stupid episode where they stuffed the angel full of battleships.
Once again, I'm not asking for tokenism. Kayto's harem is already full to bursting, for example, so I'm totally fine with not having a black heroine show up. I would just like to suggest that it would be good -- for immersion's sake if nothing else -- if LiS shows a wider swath of humanity in its future games than it has to date.
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Post by truebeliever on May 27, 2016 9:16:33 GMT -8
Good fixes, although in this case:
"Where're my input, doc?!"
the real problem is not "input," which is fine being singular, but the "Where're," which should be "Where's." Also, I think "Asaga has filled me in about the details of the situation" reads fine as is.
Another fix that'd be nice is this:
Come to think of it, he knew next to nothing about Claude, except for what he could gleam from his fragmented memories of the future.
"Gleam" should be "glean."
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Post by truebeliever on May 25, 2016 19:11:46 GMT -8
Actually, Hollow Ataraxia follows a completely separate timeline that is an amalgam of all three. The In-Universe explanation is that an experiment of Tohsaka Rin's regarding the creation of the Gem Sword Zeldrich (IDK if that's spelled right) backfired and created a brand-new timeline that is a merger of the three routes of Fate/Stay Night. Not only is Illya alive but so is Rider (which doesn't happen outside of Heaven's Feel) and Saber (which only happens in Unlimited Blade Work's good end). Also, Shirou is apparently earning money in London as butler of Rin's nemesis, Luviagelita Edelfelt. To put it bluntly, none of the routes could be cannon in that instance. Right, I've adjusted my posts to reflect that.
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Post by truebeliever on May 25, 2016 19:01:56 GMT -8
(Also... WTF are you talking about with Fate/Stay Night - it was repeatedly stated that NONE of the routes are more or less cannon then the other in that game; in the writer's opinion, they all happened, by way of multiverse theory I'd guess. So if anything, that's the worst game to make a comparison with.)
You're right, of course, that none of the routes are officially more or less canon than others, and yet there is clearly "a" canon route for the purpose of the sequel, Hollow Ataraxia, which doesn't cleanly match any of the three main routes from Stay Night. For example, Hollow Ataraxia takes place in a universe that closely resembles UTW's end, and yet Ilya is alive, which of course didn't happen in UTW. So I'd argue that my characterization of UTW as non-canon is accurate in the context of the sequel, despite the official "all routes are canon" Nasuverse line. In fairness, I suppose I should have added Heaven's Feel as well, which I've done now.
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Post by truebeliever on May 25, 2016 10:48:41 GMT -8
I was not one of those people who expected [RE]turn to fix all my problems with Liberation Day; I expected a nice diversion, a fun bit of lagniappe. The fact is that I was pleasantly surprised. For all that it's non-canon, [RE]turn actually managed to address a lot of the beefs I had with the main game. Spoilers follow: We now have more in-game information on Alice's origin and motivations. We now see Kayto's crashing the Sunrider put in proper perspective as the rash act it was, and his fragile emotional state is clearly highlighted as the root of his poor decisions. We even get a nice bit where Kayto himself vents about how absurd the relationship with Chigara is on the face of things: how ridiculous it is for him to give up his military career for Chigara's dream, how daunting her insistent vision of having a big family is, and how she never stops going on about that damned bakery. There are all kinds of nice fourth-wall breaking asides too, like when Kayto wonders how they ever managed to beat the Nightmare Ascendant in Liberation Day and surmises that his former self must have been playing on easy mode.
Perhaps most importantly, we now have the player agency that fans wanted so desperately in Liberation Day. Your choices, even seemingly unimportant ones, matter to the game's storyline and your relationships with the women in the game. It was fun to go through [RE]turn multiple times and see which decisions led to which outcomes and to hear Claude take you to task for your bad choices. In fact, I personally hope LiS makes Bad Ends and Claude lectures a regular feature of the series going forward.
I was surprised, as I said, that a non-canon add-on could do so much to improve my opinion of Liberation Day, and yet maybe I ought not to have been. Fate/Stay Night has three major routes, none of which, strictly speaking, are canon in the context of the sequel. Yet each of the routes contributes unique information about the game's characters that can't be found in the others; rather than being superfluous, they're all necessary to understanding the full story. And the non-canon status of the Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, and Heaven's Feel routes takes nothing from the quality of those storylines; for me, my time playing Unlimited Blade Works is a particularly pleasant memory, for all that it officially never happened in the context of Hollow Ataraxia (see post below). It's like the conflicting retellings of the same story in Rashomon: They can't all have happened, and yet each one illuminates a different facet, a different viewpoint; they're all valuable, even if they're not all true.
It goes without saying that Liberation Day's current state, after two major additions, was not a planned result, but in many ways a fortuitous accident, a reaction to fan outcry. And yet I have to admit that its troubled release seems to prove the saying that it's an ill wind that blows no good. It would have been best had all these changes been worked from the start into the linear storyline that fans were expecting, and yet the game's current state isn't so bad either. Instead of getting drip-fed data as you go along, the game is effectively jump cutting, providing background in a way akin to Pulp Fiction's nonlinear direction. You play through Liberation Day and get the "true" storyline. Then you play [RE]turn, and as you go through the various endings, more and more of the story and characters are revealed. They absolutely complement each other, one providing fleet combat and the canon route, the others providing richness and context. Incidentally, non-canon storylines are also something I hope to see more of in the Sunrider series going forward: they're terrific. The more the better.
Had the game somehow been released in something close to this condition -- if LiS itself could somehow go back in time and rework [RE]turn's time traveling mechanic more organically into the main game, for example, providing multiple routes (but still only one canon one) -- then I, for one, would have been delighted by what I took to be LiS' skillful game design. The thought that the company managed to engineer this kind of turnaround in three months amazes me. And maybe that's the real lesson that LiS ought to be taking here. Not just about the importance of listening to fan feedback, but about the importance of getting things right the first time. Had they taken the additional time to polish Liberation Day before release, I think it would have seen much more commercial success. Producing work in white heat is well and good, but cool reflection can help temper a game.
Needless to say, not all is perfection. [RE]turn is as riddled by typos as the rest of Liberation Day (glean, not gleam; Fereldan has multiple spellings, etc.), and yet the fact is that LiS has done solid work here. It works. It absolutely works.
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Post by truebeliever on May 24, 2016 17:10:09 GMT -8
It's been a while since I played through the endgame content in 2.00. Did the character sprites always overlap like this, or is this new to 3.00?
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Post by truebeliever on May 22, 2016 9:48:12 GMT -8
Fair enough, Dextix; I dare say I could have been more civil myself.
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Post by truebeliever on May 22, 2016 8:55:45 GMT -8
I agree that Dextix is taking Samu's words out of context. And I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise behind some posts here, that there is some sort of natural law, some bill of rights that requires that all fans' whims be unfailingly catered to and that their wishes are coequal to what a writer wants to do.
To my mind, this attitude is very reminiscent of those extreme idol-otaku who think that because they've shown some devotion and bought some CDs that they have the right to control how the objects of their affection live, to demand that they remain pure, virginal, and prevented from having any sort of normal social life. It betrays an extremely unpleasant sense of self-entitlement and a delusional view of reality that has no basis that I can understand.
I can scarcely believe this needs pointing out, but LiS has much more skin in the series' success than any fan does. If their games don't sell, then they're out on the street and probably in hock as well. Fans, meanwhile, may be saddened (although the attitude of some people on this board makes me question whether they might not indulge in schadenfreude instead), but they won't be starving.
I'm a simple-minded man, but when I see one person with skin in the game and another person with none but only a big mouth, my sympathy runs to the one with skin -- and the one who's actually doing the work. These veiled hints at market blackmail by some supposed silent majority are contemptible. It's all very well to talk about how easy it would be to add some more story arcs, but talk is cheap. Let the fans who think it's a walk in the park write up their own scenarios and post them here for other fans to appraise -- if they dare. LiS is a business, and if there are some halfway competent efforts that get the job done, then I'm sure they would be happy to use those scenarios and give cowriter credit.
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Post by truebeliever on May 21, 2016 20:33:08 GMT -8
But that's just it - a writer, especially a game-maker, DOES have those obligations because that's one of the things that comes with having a fan-base; you have expectations and a community to support, and supporting it means taking them and their contributions, opinions and so-forth under consideration lest you just drive people away. Part of doing "an honest job" is to keep what the fans want in mind - that's the whole point of even making a fan-base in the first place, and it's as much a requirement of any writer who feels his job is worth a damn as it is for fans to be understanding of the dev himself. It is NOT as one-sided as you're trying to make it - obligations exist; nothing and I mean nothing can ever change that, but they are an equal two-way street. To "state things as clearly as I can", believing otherwise is (in my experience) wishful thinking at best and a fantasy at worst. You ARE obligated - it's "beyond the pale" to think otherwise because the issue is more balancing the two out. And actually, money's not germane to this because it's about the series in general; the price-tag doesn't change that. But that in and of itself is the issue - "I'd have survived." That's the same as saying you don't care that much - in fact, most of the argument feels more like you've said Samu shouldn't care about how his game is/turns out as much as his fans do. Moreover, the reviews only "improved" because they were re-reviews overlapped on top of those that were bad, Even more jarring is that most of them aren't even giving a thumbs-up because it's good - it's because it's better then it was. Worse still, I can only count on one hand how many of those reviews, positive or otherwise, didn't criticize the main story as being lackluster, linear, badly-executed or even botched - even people who said they loved it claimed the story was the WORST PART. It feels like Samu is letting the number of reviews influence his stance instead of what the actual reviews themselves are saying - like if there's more bad then good or vice-versa, he doesn't have to actually READ the feedback. The entire point of this was that I'm no longer sure "eloquence and reasoning" even matter to him anymore - just numbers. But again, that's NOT the case because V2.00 wasn't a revision - it was an expansion, which was closer to what people wanted for the MID-GAME, which makes "endlessly revising" the wrong phrase entirely. "Revising" is altering the path that's taken - changing the ending entirely or the like or replacing dialouge or changing the whole layout - which is arguably the TOTAL OPPOSITE of expanding. Look at the Mass Effect series' DLC - they added to the story but they didn't need to drastically change the main storyline or completely redo it's ending to do so (with 3 being the arguable exception). Also, for the record, only ONE person on that poll has actually called for a total rewrite - what's there is more then just salvageable; it just needs one extra arc to pad things out and not make the plot feel so rushed. The number of people who actually want a total rewrite is the minority - in fact, Marx is the only person I know who suggested it. Plus, you're making a pretty big assumption on whether or not it would satisfy the "rewrite contingent" in general if the story was proven salvageable, and any such "2.2" would already be satisfied by [RE]Turn. In short - your argument comes across as completely and utterly semantical, and dealing with a "2.1" would ensure the things people had issue with in LibDay don't have to dictate what the narrative of the next Sunrider game has to do to compensate for it. But counter to that, it almost feels like you're arguing Samu doesn't have a right to acknowledge what the feedback his fans are giving him actually is. Again, when you have a fanbase, you are in fact obligated to listen to them and take it under consideration - what you do with it and how it takes shape can vary, but that doesn't mean you can just do whatever anymore then they can demand whatever. Fanbases and creators share an EQUAL sense of obligation - neither side has more power then the other and both need to listen to each-other to create a successful community. Your arguing about grammar is another semantical example - it's something that isn't severe enough to be immersion-breaking like a story-narrative issue is; the scale of these issues is apples and oranges. You can claim otherwise all you want, but the fact of the matter is that sometimes what you want isn't always what's best - an issue that has plagued storywriters before because, just like any other human, they're not above reproach. Sometimes for the good of the story, you need to be able to step back and admit you made a wrong turn - something that not every writer can do if they're too close to the story in question. That's typically why big-name games nowadays have peer-review boards and assistant writers to offer input as well - and of course, why they even have COMMUNITIES in the first place. If they were "prepared for those consequences", the LibDay fiasco wouldn't have happened - nor would they have felt the need for V2.00 in response to the backlash. It may be their game, but it's no longer just their story - not once it gets a fanbase and community going. Like I said, that's part of what having fanbases is, and taking consideration of it is one of those "consequences." Again, I think we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one. You seem to be envisioning the relationship between a writer and fans as being equal and collaborative, whereas I don't think there's anything written in stone that says it has to be that way. Actually, I think our exchange here points up how difficult it would be for fans to agree on how much revision -- or expansion as you put it -- would be adequate. Take your statement regarding typos, for example. To you, spelling and grammatical mistakes are irrelevant matters that aren't in the same league as storyline issues. In fact, I agree that storyline issues take precedence, but in my opinion, typos and awkward writing will undercut the immersive quality of any story, no matter how excellent. What may seem tolerable to you will not necessarily be so to another. If you want to argue that only those issues that are important to you are worth considering, be aware that other people are not obligated to agree with you. In fact, they probably won't, and the revisionary or expansionary quagmire I'm talking about would almost certainly come to pass. You and I both read Marx's criticism, for example; that thread, far from being united in opinion, was full of conflicting opinions. Will these vanish if LiS makes the additions you want and not others? Will the person who voted for a complete rewrite suddenly see the light and drop his objections? It seems I have less faith in the good sense and reason of fans than you do. As for whether saying, "I'd have survived," means I don't care, you're free to interpret that as you will. I do think it would have seemed overwrought and mentally unbalanced of me to have claimed that "I'd have died" if I didn't get my way.
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Post by truebeliever on May 21, 2016 16:28:32 GMT -8
But that in and of itself MAKES NO SENSE FOR YOU TO SAY - this is something we have already seen Samu is willing to do; he is already willing to put time and effort into this stuff and do so for something that is arguably twice as complicated and nuanced as making a mid-game arc would have been. Your saying "human beings and not automatons" is a misnomer - a writer publishing for their own sake is different from one running a game series; he has to strike a middle ground because once he has a fan-base, he DOES have an obligation to them just as much as he does to himself. Especially if it's got (J)RPG elements. If we were talking about a BOOK, you might have had a point and even then only from one perspective - but we're not. And that's not even counting if there is or isn't a clear-cut deficiency between current and prior works. But you know what the funny thing is? It's that EITEHR WAY this is invalid because nobody was asking Samu to change anything - only to ADD TO IT. And he's shown he's willing to do that - just that he hasn't done it in the way that people really wanted to see. That argument doesn't fly for me - this isn't a case of a parent and child. This is a case of game and it's community - if anything, Samu would be the PARENT in this comparison, not the child, and the community would be the "children", with the situation being a case of a parent not acknowledging concerns voiced about how he's doing things. And unless you take all factors into account and find a MIDDLE-ROAD, you would be unhappy no matter what path you pick. Consider that this situation is pretty much nothing like you're describing it - you're trying to make it seem like one side is claiming or forcing more obligation then the other when it's actually a case of EQUAL obligation. What you're saying comes across more like an attempt to say Samu's fans are supposed to be more obligated to him then he is to them (or at least that's how I see it), and that just does not fly when you're trying to make a game community. That next argument also doesn't fly for me - because once again, Samu's shown he's willing to do this. He's willing to keep expanding LibDay, but it's going to have friction anyway because it doesn't rectify the issues people had with LibDay in the first place - the core story. And nobody's even asking him to change it - just stretch it out to make the pacing flow better. But that's just it - pitiful or not, that's often the PRICE of being an artist or famous in any sense; once you get known for something, you can NEVER change that. Harrison Ford's always going to be famed as Han Solo even long after he hangs up the holster, Robert Downey .Jr's always going to be seen as Iron Man long after he retires the armor, Mark Hamill's always going to be seen as the Joker and Luke Skywaker even after he puts away the clown makeup and the lightsaber - eventually it gets old and you either move on or want to move on to different things, but it doesn't change the fact that they are part of who you are, and you have to address that. LibDay is brought up so much because it's considered the ONE BLOTCH on what's been a good series, and just one extra arc could have fixed all of that - one arc that wouldn't have taken any more or less effort then what was ALREADY done for [RE]Turn alone. You keep asking "why", but fail to look at what's already been done and say "why not?" It's not "endlessly revising" - it's one EXPANSION, and one that doesn't require changing how the game ends or the overall vision. It's nowhere near as complex as you're making it out to be, and I'd think they would have enjoyed the satisfaction of having to just get it over with and never need to worry about it again - saying "you can't please everyone" is a misnomer; you just have to please the core fans you inspired with this, and a mid-game arc would have done that. But likewise, if they're going to put that much work into an optional and therefore non-essential expansion, who are you to deny people asking they show the same care for their own main story that they do to "fanservice" or spin-offs or the like? "The reality" is that [RE]Turn is just another spin-off that, no matter how fun it might be on it's own, doesn't add or fix anything and if anything gives the impression he'd rather turn away from problems or create AU's then go back and fix their main product - and in LibDay's current state, whatever narrative issues don't get addressed now ("railroad-shotgun romance, Kayto suddenly not paying attention to any of the crew, Asaga's breakdowns, Sola's reversal to stoicism, ect) will plague the future entries - they won't be escaped no matter what, so clearing it now only makes sense. This is probably at the crux of our disagreement, so let me do away with comparisons and state things as clearly as I can. I don't think a writer has an obligation to his or her fans other than to do an honest job. I think it's nice when a writer addresses fans' concerns, but I don't think that's required. Similarly, I think it's nice when fans show loyalty to a writer, but I don't think they're obligated to stick by one who's lazy or incompetent. More germane to this discussion, I don't think fans have a right to demand that a writer change his or her work simply by virtue of having paid money. We bought a game, not the right to dictate how LiS should use their time, and anyone who thinks they have that right is definitely beyond the pale. When LiS put out 2.0, that was a nice gesture. They would have been fully within their rights to keep the game as is. I had many complaints about LibDay's ending, and I would have been unhappier if they hadn't put out 2.0, but needless to say, I'd have survived. Granted, 2.0 was not a totally selfless gesture on LiS' part: As Magpie pointed out, the reviews were indeed bad, and it was in the series' interest to turn perceptions around. Things are different now; the reviews have improved, and as far as LiS is concerned, there is no compelling reason to tinker further with LibDay proper. Unless you can somehow change Samu's mind through eloquence and close reasoning, that's just how it is. Incidentally, I think 2.0 is a good example of why I think "endlessly revising" is the right phrase. As your poll shows, some players just wanted a better ending, and 2.0 satisfied them. Other players thought the midgame was faulty, and they're calling for more story arcs, as you're doing. Other people thought the entire setup was flawed and needed a complete rewrite. A 2.1 that adds midgame content will not satisfy the complete rewrite contingent, just as 2.0 didn't satisfy the midgamers. If you, hypothetically, are a midgamer, then you might argue that 2.1 would be enough and those calling for 2.2 are unreasonable, but of course, the 2.0 contingent would have choice words for you as well. And of course, there was a small but vocal contingent who thought the 1.0 version was a perfectly good game. It's a quagmire, and I understand LiS' desire to do 2.0 -- and no more. To get back on topic, you wrote that Samu was willing to add to LibDay, just not in the way that people really wanted to see. That's probably a fair assessment, but from my point of view, he's well within his rights to do what he likes. Here's an example of what I'm driving at: The Sunrider games are riddled with spelling and grammar errors and awkward phrasing. It's pretty undeniable that fixing those would improve players' perception of the series and lift it out of semi-amateur status. But LiS hasn't fixed them and never will; when they've made an effort to fix them, it's always been half-hearted and low-priority. That's their decision as a company, I assume based on their resources and obligations. I think it's misguided, but as a fan, I've made my peace with the fact that their games are always going to have typos. Similarly, while LiS is willing to make a kind of side story with [RE]turn, they're clearly not willing to look at a 2.1 or 2.2. You may think that's wrong; you may argue that LibDay's flaws will plague the series unless fixed now, and you may be right, but LiS doesn't have to fix them if it doesn't want to. Of course, there are consequences for actions, but if they're prepared for those consequences, then what can anyone else say? It's their life and their games. No one would be happier than me if Sunrider goes on to bigger and better things, but if it doesn't, I can live with that too.
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Post by truebeliever on May 21, 2016 14:20:58 GMT -8
That's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Sharr, because we're dealing with human beings and not automatons. I think a writer should write what he or she wants to write, not what someone tells him or her to write, because the alternative is very often an unhappy writer who can't work to his or her full potential. To go back to George R.R. Martin, I think the guy's a terrifically capable writer. If you'd asked me back in the day whether I thought he could fill out those missing years between Book 3 and Book 4, I'd have said, yes, absolutely. And the reality is that he's been having a terrible time. The problem is not one of raw talent. Pardon my armchair psychology, but I suspect the reality is that Martin never wanted to go that route and resents being forced that way, hence the numerous delays in writing the series since Book 3.
You can think of it this way. An overbearing parent may want his child to become a lawyer/doctor/engineer. He knows the child is smart enough to do those jobs successfully. But suppose the child wants to make video games instead? Yes, she's probably condemning herself to a lifetime of substandard earnings, but that's what she wants to do with her life. Should the parent get his way because he knows best? Sure, studying law is probably a better use of time and resources than making games, but is a miserable, unmotivated lawyer better off than a happy, motivated video game creator? And then consider that we are not LiS' parents, but merely a bunch of fans.
The other day, I read a story about Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the character designer for Neon Genesis Evangelion. Apparently, he's super-sick of Evangelion and would rather do literally anything else, but is shackled to the series because that's what the fans want and that's what his bosses therefore are interested in making. "It's a franchise I don't really want to work on anymore at this point – but it's an important franchise in Japan and there are many fans, so I take it seriously," is what he said. "As an artist, the feeling that shakes me is 'why do we spend money on projects that aren't new ideas or new stories?' I know that's how the industry works, but I wonder."
I don't know how that line makes you feel, but it fills me with pity. The last thing I want to see is LiS eternally shackled to Liberation Day, endlessly revising. Fans have a right to criticize, but after a certain point, they'd probably be better off making their own game than trying to force LiS to match their ideals. [RE]turn, from what I understand, is something fun they decided to do on their own. It's not meant to appease fans dissatisfied with LibDay; it's a lark and a bit of lagniappe for players. And clearly they enjoyed making it, considering how much effort they put into it.
If LiS is having some much-needed fun with [RE]turn, then who am I to deny them that? The reality is that they've worked hard on three main Sunrider entries and a spinoff. They probably need some time off to let the well refill, hence their work on Starnova. Once they get that out of their system, they'll be back to work on a proper Sunrider sequel again, and they'll be in better shape to do a good job.
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Post by truebeliever on May 21, 2016 8:44:57 GMT -8
A good point, longtimelurker, but I hope you'll forgive me for keeping the thread off topic a bit longer.
Sharr, although I'm looking forward to [RE]turn, I sympathize with your viewpoint. That said, I think Magpie is correct. What appears to be an easy addition to a storyline may easily not be, particularly if a writer has a preexisting plan.
George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" is remarkable because the first book is great, the second book even better, and the third book even better than that. But it was after the third book that the trouble started. Martin had planned to leave things on a cliffhanger, then pick up the story a number of years later in the fourth book, with a bunch of new characters.
The fans completely blew up, and understandably so, since they were very invested in the characters they'd read about up to that point and wanted to know what happened next. The thought of skipping over all that and maybe getting a little bit in flashbacks was unbearable. Martin's publisher, alarmed by the fan response, started putting pressure on him, and eventually Martin himself came around to the fans' way of thinking and picked up the fourth book where the third finished.
The series has drifted ever since and been plagued by numerous delays. Martin was clearly not planning on having to flesh out the intervening years, and as a result, the series has essentially expanded laterally instead of moving forward. New characters are constantly being introduced, making the storyline sprawl even wider, and yet there's very little progress to speak of. It's the curse of getting what you wished for: The fans succeeded in changing the writer's plans to suit their tastes -- but at what cost? It's one thing for a fan to say, "Just fill out the middle a bit," but how do you know if Love in Space is capable of doing that? And if they do botch it, then who's to blame at that point? LiS or the fans?
I've said this before, but Love in Space must ultimately rise or fall on their own merits. If they end up making a mess of the series, then so be it; don't give them the option of blaming the fans for how things turn out.
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Post by truebeliever on May 20, 2016 5:49:17 GMT -8
Hey I don't mean to but in or anything but this has been bugging me for a while. Sharr you should probably be using "Canon" with 1 n. Cannons are a form of artillery after all. "Muphry's Law" can be a b*tch. Feel free to butt in any time!
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Post by truebeliever on Apr 6, 2016 14:40:47 GMT -8
Believe me, I say this in all friendliness, Sharr, but that was one case in which you would have done better to resist the snark. That said, I agree the thread should be fine now provided we get no more drive-by trollings.
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Post by truebeliever on Apr 6, 2016 9:21:39 GMT -8
I absolutely agree. The thread has been derailed enough. Let's get back on topic.
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Post by truebeliever on Apr 5, 2016 16:00:23 GMT -8
Starnova's the idol management game that Love in Space is working on next. Just in case that comes across as flip or sarcastic, it's not -- that's really what it is. Also, welcome to the forum!
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Post by truebeliever on Apr 5, 2016 15:53:36 GMT -8
Marx, I think you, Sharr, and I are more or less on the same page regarding Liberation Day's writing. I hope I'm not putting words in Sharr's mouth, but I believe what he and I are saying is that Liberation Day's structural and pacing problems directly stemmed from LiS' plan to end the game with a twist, and that's why it's germane to the topic. That said, I certainly have no desire to rehash any arguments about the ending's flaws, which have already been covered in detail elsewhere on the forum, and after reading your last post, I can understand that you don't want the thread to devolve into a repeat of those. I think we can all move on with the topic, since I believe Sharr and I have both made our point. I'll be looking forward to reading your next installment.
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Post by truebeliever on Apr 5, 2016 10:50:24 GMT -8
I actually think Sharr has a point about the ending. Instead of being a separate problem, it was arguably a major source of the game's narrative and pacing issues. (Spoilers follow.)
My suspicion is that LiS had V 1.0's cliffhanger ending in mind from the start of development and structured the storyline based on that. For a twist ending to work, you have to build up expectations to the contrary: In this case, you had to make Cera's liberation seem like a sure and inevitable thing. Therefore, there was no dramatic tension as the player proceeded toward the end; everything was just a glorified mopping-up operation as the crew slogged toward victory. There were minor annoyances, but the destination was never in doubt. In other words, Liberation Day's relatively unexciting, unsurprising and uninspired story arc was not due to incompetence, but rather intentionally created, precisely so LiS could pull the rug out from under the player -- the narrative end determining the narrative means.
Imagine if LiS hadn't been working toward a twist ending. Then the lack of dramatic tension in the progress toward Cera would have been an overwhelmingly obvious problem. Fixing this would have called for putting Cera's liberation in doubt. A genuine threat to the Sunrider's and Alliance's progress would have been required, and this would have led to the changes in the villains that Marx urges. Arcadius might have been made more competent and done more than spout B-movie villain lines. Alice might have done more than just pull a Nightmare Ascendant out of her ass toward the end. The disagreement over the Neutral Rim's future might have caused Fontana to deploy his PACT admiral earlier in the game to bedevil Kayto and crew. The Alliance's machinations might have come to light much earlier. All this would have benefited the combat, as well the storyline, creating challenging situations in which the outcome was in doubt. So, in my opinion, the twist ending undid everything; LiS should never have made that its goal.
On a side note, I think LiS' great achievement with the first two games was to invest the characters with a sense of possibility. Just enough was hinted about them and their personalities that players could fill in the gaps with their imaginations. This turns out to have been a double-edged sword: Players are understandably disappointed when a character, who seems like she could be more than just a trope, is depicted as just a cookie-cutter character after all.
I think LiS is most successful with its characterizations when it chooses to write beyond stereotypes. Kayto, for example, was clearly more than just a typical shonen hero spouting lines about justice. Loli pirate became truly interesting when we learned there was more to her than just that. So more uniqueness and individuality, please. Ignoring character possibilities in the interest of expedience is absolutely a mistake. It's more work, but it'll pay off in the end.
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Post by truebeliever on Mar 13, 2016 7:48:25 GMT -8
Actually, Verthand is correct. "To and fro" essentially means "back and forth," which might help make matters clearer. "Travel back and forth Cera..." doesn't work, but "Travel to and from Cera..." does.
You could also write "Access to Cera has been restricted..." which means the same thing and is shorter.
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Post by truebeliever on Mar 12, 2016 14:05:27 GMT -8
In case there's a 2.03 patch, a few more: 1. Part of this is on me, since I urged changing "mindstream" to "neural link." The game now says "neutral link."
Original: Kayto: She used the neutral link to control Chigara... Fix: neural link
2. Original: Kayto: You said it yourself, right? You time warped just a second before the final tear burst. Fix: Final Tear
3. Original: Vae Victus Fix: Vae Victis
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Post by truebeliever on Mar 10, 2016 12:06:31 GMT -8
A quick readthrough using a V 1.0 save toward the end produced these. I'm assuming most of the new content occurred after the V 1.0 ending. Errors from that point start with #74 in the list below: 1. Original: Ava: Warning, new hostiles inbound! Pirate forces, on a intercept course! Fix: On an intercept
2. Not sure why I didn't notice this before, but there seems to be steam in the shower room, even though Icari's taking a cold shower. Maybe you should just take out that bit about the shower being cold.
3. Original: Icari: You better prepare yourself! I'm not gonna be out drank by a choir boy like you! Fix: outdrunk
4. Original: He leaned in to Chigara's ears. Fix: He leaned toward Chigara.
5. Original: Fontana: But it shall be time which wither away the wealth of the imperialists. Fix: withers away
6. Original: Claude offered to Shields some pain numbing lubricant. Fix: offered Shields
7. Original: Asaga laid awake on her bed. Fix: lay awake
8. Original: Ava: We have received various contracts to fulfill on route to Cera from our various partners. Fix: en route
9. Original: Ava: The Alliance has received word of strange disappearances occuring in the Pacemus Nebula. Fix: occurring
10. Original: Last week, PACT has docked a fleet at the Union's stations in Tydaria... Fix: PACT docked a fleet
11. Original: and arranged an Alliance fleet to drop in and sink the PACT fleet. Fix: arranged for an Alliance fleet
12. Original: Kayto: And thanks to that, the Alliance overlooks the fact that they've been getting shelled with Union made missiles the entire war. Fix: Union-made
13. Original: Kayto: All right, let's cause enough of mess here so that the Alliance can perform their diplomatic mission. Fix: of a mess
14. Original: Kayto: This will be our final battle. Nothing will going to stand between us and our home. Fix: Nothing will stand
15. Original: Asaga: No... That's... not want I want at all...! Fix: not what I want
16. Original: Alice: To think the great Acadius gave his life for those lowlifes! Fix: Arcadius
17. Original: Asaga: She's isn't one of us! Fix: She
18. Original: Shields sat with Chigara on his lap on at his bureau. Fix: on his lap at his bureau.
19. Original: Kayto: What's the situation. Fix: What's the situation?
20. Original: Alice: We are surrounded. Out numbered. Out powered. Fix: Outnumbered. Outpowered.
21. Original: Icari: A-are you crazy!? The Libety's spinning like a yoyo! Fix: Liberty
22. Original: Sola: Target successful. Fix: Attack successful
23. Original: Kayto: Shields patted Chigara on head. Fix: Shields patted Chigara's head.
24. Original: Icari: By the time this is over, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually turns out being the case... Fix: turns out to be the case
25. Original: Asaga: But they've got another thing coming if they think their tricks are going to work! Fix: Strictly speaking, the phrase is "another think coming;" suggest "But they're wrong if they think..." so you don't have two "thinks" so close.
26. Original: Asaga: (I'm the only who...!) Fix: the only one who
27. Original: Chigara lied beside Shields Fix: lay beside
28. Original: Fontana: The second fleet has already pledged their loyalty to me. Fix: has already pledged its (singular verb, singular pronoun)
29. Original: Fontana: They are no longer comrades to the revolution, but merely your brain washed puppets. Fix: brainwashed
30. Original: Alice: Did you think that I would leave you with the second fleet with no back up plan? Fix: backup
31. Original: Ava: I-impossible! The second fleet has just powered their engines! Fix: has just powered its (singular verb, singular pronoun)
32. Original: Chigara: I will enter the prototype's neural link and attempt to interfere with their thoughts! Fix: prototypes'
33: Original: Prototype: And by fortune, your path crossed with Shields, the would be savior of the galaxy. Fix: would-be
34: Original: Prototype: We allowed your free reign in your interactions with him so we may learn his machinations. Fix: free rein
35. Original: Alice: Hahahaha! Pathethic! Fix: Pathetic
36. Original: Kayto: (There's nothing on the field which can counter it!) Fix: In this case, use "that" instead of "which"
37. Original: Ava: How say we fire every shell, laser, and missile at it and see how it fares against the full might of humanity's wrath. Fix: Replace period with question mark.
38. Original: Sola: Legend speaks that the Myr'lan'dur single handedly destroyed... Fix: single-handedly
39. Original: Kryska: This is the best time to show the galaxy that freedom will win over the tools of long dead tyrants any day! Fix: long-dead
40. Original: Fontana: It was made by the hands of man, and it can be fallen by the same. Fix: felled by the same
41. Original: Admiral: If we lose here, against just one ryder, my offspring will become laughstocks for the next ten generations. Fix: laughingstocks
42. Original: Fontana: No longer will we overlook the suffering of our people for reckless misadventures on foreign lands. Fix: in foreign lands
43: Original: Icari: S-seriously... W-who the hell do I think I am... Fix: do you think
44. Original: Admiral Grey held hands with Fontana... Fix: shook hands
45. Original: Admiral: ... While we mourn for those who lost their lives, must also commemorate the living. Fix: we must also commemorate
46. Original: Shields stood to his feet. Fix: Shields rose to his feet.
47. Original: For a moment, a second became eternity Fix: For an instant, a second became eternity. (moment/second clashes badly)
48. Original (same line as above): Blood splatted Shields' face... Fix: spattered (sprayed with small drops) or splashed (lots of blood)
49. Original: ... just moments before were rendered to pieces. Fix: were rent to pieces. (past participle of render)
50. Original: Shields felt as if his own blood was draining out... Fix: were draining out (conditional)
51. Original: Shields howled and clenched his blood soaked hands. Fix: blood-soaked
52. Original: The hunter drones systemically hunted... Fix: systematically or methodically
53. Original: Humanity is but a jealous, paranoid, hate filled biomass. Fix: hate-filled
54. Original: Shields pointed his arm at Fontana,... Fix: pointed at Fontana
55. Original: I WAS A FOOL TO THINK PEACE WOULD EVER EXIST BETWEEN YOU AND I Fix: between you and me. (In this sentence, Kayto is the object of the preposition "between" and so has to take the objective form "me." Trust me on this one.)
56. Original: Ava held down Shields and wrestled him to the floor. Fix: Ava held Shields back and... (If she was holding him down, then she couldn't wrestle him to the floor.)
57. Original: Kryska raised her side arm Fix: sidearm, like firearm
58. Original: Kryska: I'm sorry captain. Fix: I'm sorry, captain.
59. Original: The three of them went flying in the shock wave. Fixes: flying from the shockwave.
60. Original: Kryksa: It is a more small scaled version of the original, which can be mounted on a regular ship based torpedo. Fixes: small-scaled, original that can be mounted (no comma), ship-based
61. Original: Kryska: It's destructive potential is correspondingly smaller. Fix: Its
62. Original: Kryska: H-honestly... that I never personally even fathomed it was even an option... Fix: never personally fathomed (take out an "even")
63. Original: Kayto: Can we perform a short range warp... Fix: short-range
64. Original: Kayto: All right Cosette... I'll let you out... Fix: All right, Cosette...
65. Original: Kayto: And I hear the hanger crew... Fix: hangar crew
66. Original: Ava: We are still 900 000 kilometers from the target and the warp drive... Fix: 900,000 kilometers from the target, and the warp drive... (two commas)
67. Original: Ava: We are 100 000 kilometers from the target! Fix: 100,000
68. Original: Kayto: All ahead full! Prepare to fire the vanguard at point blank range! Fixes: Vanguard, point-blank
69. Original: Ava: 70 000 to target! Fix: 70,000
70. Original: The Sunrider howled as a chunk of its mouth... Fix: a chunk of its prow
71. Original: She checked off the last names off her crew list... Fix: She checked off the last names on her crew list... (Take out an "off")
72. Original: Kayto: Our mission was nothing but a long shot gamble... Fix: longshot
73. As Kayto sits in the wrecked bridge, the display screen above him shows a diagram of the Sunrider headed for Machiavelli Actual; it reads "Collison Course" instead of "Collision Course."
74. Original: Alpha: (No... She has long ceased being human... And has become a different entity all together...) Fixes: long ceased to be human... altogether
75. Original: Claude: And this time, Claude will definitely win his heart! There won't be no little C8 unit to interfere any more! Fix: There won't be any little C8 unit to interfere! (Use of "no" and "any" was inconsistent in the original. Claude would use one or the other, as in "no little C8 unit to interfere no more" or "any little C8 unit to interfere any more. And both produce repetition. Just ditch the "any more" phrase.
76. Original: Alpha: You will use your powers to change the time line? Fix: Subsequent references have "timeline."
77. Original: Lynn: I felt a premonition. A sudden, inexplicable, urge... Fix: delete comma after "inexplicable"
78. As mentioned by others, Ava has her eyepatch even if the player didn't opt to destroy the Legion.
79. Original: Asaga: I can't believe I just found like you like that! Fix: just found you
80. Original: Kayto: She used the mindstream to control Chigara... Fix: No one except the Prototypes have called the neural link that up until now, and Shields wouldn't know the term. Just make it "used the neural link" to control Chigara, as before.
81. Original: Kayto: I still hear the echos of Ava's voice that day... Fix: echoes
82. Original: Kayto: "Captain... your order..." Fix: Ava actually said "What are your orders, captain!?" in First Arrival.
83. Original: Kayto: Our hard won peace... completely shattered at my feet. Fix: hard-won
84. Original: Kayto: ... Stare at death's maws with both eyes open. Fix: death's maw or death's jaws. How many mouths does death have?
85. Original: Kayto: Can I be judged worthy of having done my duty. Fix: It should be "Could I be judged" because of the phrases that preceded it: "I had to stand my ground... and only then..."
86. Original: Sola: Fear not. I merely seek to apply my in marksmanship... Fix: I merely seek to apply my marksmanship...
87. Original: Kryska: While this may be of disappointing news, I intend to turn myself in to the Alliance! Fix: may be disappointing news,
88. Original: Icari: Oy, whatdaya mean, she saved you!? Fix: Oy, whattaya mean
89. Original: Claude: That sure was a messy entry... piro-tee~ Fix: I assume she's saying "pilot" in a Japanese accent. The problem is, it reads like "pirotee." Maybe just make it "pilot."
90. Original: Veniczar S. Fontana stood at the bridge of the Assault Carrier Vae Victus. Fix: The Latin phrase is "Vae Victis," "Woe to the conquered."
91. Original: Kuushana: The Alliance will seek a target which will deal the most damage to our will. And a heavily populated core world like Tethra would to too tantalizing a target if it were to remain completely undefended... Fix: "like Tethra would be too tantalizing"
92. Original: Kuushana: They will perform a risky multi-stage warp from Barona to Tethra, and ignore Cera all together. Fix: altogether
93. Original: Kuushana: Thus far, Grey was wise enough to avoid such high risk strategems. Fixes: high-risk, stratagems
94. Original: Kuushana: That will be the end of their offensive, as their ships will now be trapped deep inside PACT space with no safe warp back point to retreat. Fixes: as their ships will be trapped, no safe warpback point to retreat to.
95. Original: Kuushana: The entire galaxy detests us now. And by good reason... Fix: And for good reason
96. Original: Kuushana: The age of Compact, where we sought peace, instead of violence, freedom, instead of blind obedience to demagogues, and equality for all, begins today! Fixes: The age of Compact in which we seek peace instead of violence, freedom instead of blind obedience to demagogues, and equality for all begins today!
97. Original: Fontana: (When we travelled the stars to liberate ourselves from the New Empire...) Fix: traveled (LiS is a U.S. company, and this is how it's spelled in the U.S., just as it was spelled when Shields, about to crash the Sunrider into Machiavelli Actual, talked about the ship having "traveled the stars.")
98. Original: For as long as Shields could see, nothing but sand stretched on into the horizon. Fix: For as far as Shields could see
99. Original: It was difficult to believe these deserts were considered one of Tydaria's more livable areas. Other locales featured nothing more than toxic gases and scotching heat. Fix: scorching heat
100. Original: Sola: I believe Claude was actually the one who has been relying our movements to the prototypes. Fixes: was actually the one relaying our movements
101. Original: Sola: It was like a momentary trace, where all of my surroundings faded away... Fix: trance
102: Original: Sola: It was as if I was suspended in deep sleep once more, yet I was still in control of my body. Fix: It was as if I were suspended in deep sleep once more, yet still in control of my body.
103. Original: Sola: Such powers were beyond even the Ryuvians... For if such a power was attained, the Holy Empire would never have collapsed. Even if it did, one could easily restore the Empire by simply travelling back in time. Fixes: For if such a power had been attained; Even if it had, one could have easily restored the Empire; traveling back in time.
104. Original: Sola: Indeed, I feared if I exposed the truth of her identity, she may simply write me out of existence. Fix: she might simply
105. Original: Kayto: Claude is a TIME TRAVELLER? Fix: TRAVELER
106. Original: Sola: But not a god which seeks to be worshipped or feared. Fixes: that seeks, worshiped
107: Original: Sola: A god which seeks... amusement. Fix: that seeks
108. Original: Sola: An entity which merely desires... Fix: that merely
109. Original: The notion that Veniczar S. Arcadius was actually just a petite girl would have been easier to swallow than this revelation! Fix: They already know that about Arcadius, so it should be "The notion that Veniczar S. Arcadius was actually just a petite girl had been easier to swallow than this revelation!"
110. Original: That good for nothing hack of a doctor... actually a diety!? Fixes: good-for-nothing, deity
111. Original: Sola: I must have warped forward in time two thousand years just moments before the activation of the Sharr'Lac's final tear. Fix: Final Tear, to match previous references.
112. Original: Sola: That would further explain why I survived the certain death that the final tear would have caused. Fix: Final Tear
113. Original: Sola: Claude has come to return me... to my own time line. Fix: "timeline"
114. Original: Sola: I am effectively a rogue agent which should not exist in this universe. If am to... Fix: If I am to
115. Original: Sola: Put another way, if my existence changes the time line... Fix: timeline
116. Original: Kayto: From what you've told me of your time line Fix: timeline
117. Original: Kayto: You said it yourself, right? You time warped just a second before the final tear burst. Fix: Final Tear
118. Original: Kayto: Maybe there's still a way out of this. Without you returning to your time line. Fix: timeline
119. Original: His losses have been grave. Fix: had been grave
120. Original: Their mission was vast, and their efforts even mightier. And they got close to winning. Fix: And they'd gotten close to winning.
121. Original: But at the last moment, the enemy had one last trick up their sleeve and snatched victory away. Fix: the enemy had had one last trick
122. Original: Officer: Further, it appears the Farari bitch was also caught in the temporal blast and flung into this time line as well. Fix: timeline
123. Original: Officer: Unknown interlopers have destroyed the time device, and thus we cannot anticipate returning to our time line... Fix: timeline
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Post by truebeliever on Mar 10, 2016 11:48:27 GMT -8
I still have problems with the V 1.0 ending and would have preferred a different route, as outlined above, but having loaded up a save toward the end in V 2.00, it seems my apology was warranted. Love in Space redeemed themselves in my eyes with this patch. Well done.
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